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WORK WITH ME
The Business of an NPO with Robert Fukui
> <p>In love with your mission but not getting warm fuzzies from the fundraising? You’ve got to start thinking of your NPO as a business! Wait, what? </p> <p>Robert is the founder of Power Couples by Design and co-author of the book<em> Tandem: </em><strong><em>The Married Entrepreneurs’ Guide For Greater Work-Life Balance. </em></strong><strong><em><br></em></strong></p> <p>As a former Fortune 500 exec helping nonprofits grow and thrive (and keep romance alive!), Robert brings the real talk about how and why healthy nonprofits make a PROFIT (legally and ethically). 💰<br><br>We also talk about: </p> <p>💥Why you should focus on being productive vs. busy</p> <p>💥Time and money – managing your most precious resources</p> <p>💥Growing your organization the right way</p> <p>💥Who should be fundraising (hint – it’s you!)</p> <p>💥Surrounding yourself with the right board</p> <p><br>Robert Fukui helps purpose-driven leaders build thriving organizations while finding balance. Whether you lead a fledgling startup or established nonprofit, his business principles are gold! </p> <p>“The money’s not the goal, but it’s the essential part of building the organization. And if you’re not intentional about developing relationships with your donors, with new ones and also existing ones, you’re just going to struggle.” – Robert Fukui</p> <p>There’s so much more BIZ strategy packed into this episode. Let Robert school ya on sustainable nonprofit success. 🎓 </p> <p><strong>Important Links: </strong></p> <p><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertfukui/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertfukui/</a></p> <p><a href="https://marriedentrepreneur.co/">https://marriedentrepreneur.co/</a></p> <p><a href="https://www.thetandembook.com/">https://www.thetandembook.com/</a></p> <h4 class="wp-block-heading">Episode Transcript</h4> <p><strong>RHEA 0:00 </strong></p> <p>Welcome to Nonprofit Lowdown. I’m your host, Rhea Wong.</p> <p>Hey podcast listeners, Rhea Wong with you once again with Nonprofit Lowdown. </p> <p>Today I am speaking with my friend Robert Fukui about the business of running a nonprofit organization. Robert is a former Fortune 500 executive who is a marketing and sales expert, but is now focused on helping family businesses run and is.</p> <p>Particularly interested in helping married entrepreneurs succeed. He wrote a book with his wife Tandem about the married entrepreneurs, but we’re not going to talk about that today, but I thought it was particularly interesting. Robert, welcome to the show.</p> <p><strong>ROBERT 0:43</strong></p> <p>Thanks for it. I’ve not talked about like nonprofit issues at all.</p> <p>At least publicly like this. So this will be fun. </p> <p><strong>RHEA 0:51</strong></p> <p>Oh, good. I’m so glad. let’s start from the beginning. Cause you and I. Connected through a mastermind that we’re part of. And we got talking because you actually are a board member yourself. And you were talking about how you had some frustration with folks who ran nonprofits and didn’t realize it was a business.</p> <p>I also, have the same frustration. Oftentimes when I talk to new founders, I’m like, you know, you’re. Starting a small business, right? They’re like, no, I’m starting a nonprofit. I’m like, these are not different things. let’s start from there. Feel free to rant friend.</p> <p><strong>ROBERT 1:18</strong></p> <p>Yeah, no, no kidding. It’s almost if you say the word business and a nonprofit admirer, it’s like a four letter word, it’s no, that’s like this reflex no, we’re not a business.</p> <p>And I said, business is really a generic term, right? It’s not specific to for profit or nonprofit. And in fact, your nonprofit organization is a corporation, The C. Between the 501 and a three, the C stands for corporation. whether you like it or not, it is a business. It’s just that you’re doing things a little bit differently because you have a specific cause, a social cause, and a really specific social impact that you want to make that’s slightly different from business, but even that’s changing because the business, even in for profit world, they realized that you really have to be able to be intentional about giving back to the community and the people.</p> <p>It’s not all about the bottom line. If all you do is focus on a bottom line, because customers views on business is changing too. They want to identify with a brand or do business with a brand that has a cause. That does more than just make money. And so if even on the business side, if you don’t realize that the impact did you make beyond the bottom, the profits, if you don’t realize the impact that you make is more important to your consumer than making money, then you’re not going to be in competition very long.</p> <p>I’ve been on as much as I think eight or nine boards. And I think that’s like the bad habit I’ve had. And it’s one of those things that my wife and I, Kaylee and I have had discussions about because I’d come home sometimes and I’d say, Hey, I just joined another board.</p> <p>And she’s what? It’s like bringing home a lost puppy. She’s what? Another board, because, I said such a heart. For these people and especially in the beginning the boards I was joining, they’re very small nonprofits, a startup in business, but small nonprofits and they’re struggling.</p> <p>I felt I could lend my experience in, business and building things and sales because, fundraising is like sales basically. I felt I could bring some kind of level of expertise to help these nonprofits grow and thrive. it just had a heart for that.</p> <p>And when I got asked, I just, my reflex was yes.</p> <p><strong>RHEA 3:04</strong></p> <p>let’s talk about this. Cause think this is so interesting. you’re a sales and marketing expert. And often what I see, again, I don’t want it to come off as I’m beating up on my nonprofit colleagues, but often the marketing and the fundraising are seen as the redheaded stepchildren to the program.</p> <p>And that is the mission. Is that something that you’ve seen it? If so, what is your response?</p> <p><strong>ROBERT 3:23</strong></p> <p>Yeah, there’s a tension there in, especially in some smaller nonprofits that don’t have a, fundraising director and all that kind of stuff that they realize it’s important. Obviously they need the money, obviously the income to do the mission, but their focus.</p> <p>Is on the stuff and they’re not very intentional about fundraising. And of course, everybody knows that the money is the lifeblood of your organization. You need the money to do the mission, right? Otherwise, you’re just doing things for free and you’re not gonna be able to do it very long and very well.</p> <p>The money’s not the goal, but it has, it’s the essential part of building the organization. And if you’re not intentional about developing relationships with your donors, with new ones and also existing ones, you’re just going to struggle. And that’s why small nonprofits are the way they are right now is they’re not focused.</p> <p>They’re not being intentional about the fund rates. There’s a board. That I did not join recently because I was vetting them out. I got smarter, especially with all those multiple discussions with Kaylee about another one. So I decided to cap my board seats at just five, five organizations.</p> <p>And so I’ve whittled down from, I had as much as seven at one time. I whittled down to four. I think I’m at four right now. And now I vet. And I vet it with a nonprofit, I’m vetting the profit based on my values and how, does it fit me to fit what I want to do in the world, not just because they’re not a profit needs help, but does it fit, does it align with me?</p> <p>there was one, I was just, vetting out. They’d asked me, he’d asked me so many times and said, say, let me look at this thing. I was just helping basically I was consulting for pro bono for a little bit. It’s wasted what I was doing. And he’s telling me all these things are doing all these projects and stuff and all of that, but we don’t have the money and all that stuff.</p> <p>And I said, go fundraise. And he’s I don’t have time. I said, okay.</p> <p><strong>RHEA </strong> <strong>4:59</strong></p> <p>Then it’s just a hobby.</p> <p><strong>ROBERT 5:02</strong></p> <p>Exactly. They’re going to be talking about this cows at home. So you’ve got to carve out, you’ve got to make the time. To go develop</p> <p><strong>RHEA 5:08</strong></p> <p>donors. Yeah. Oh my God. I could go on and on, on this particular topic forever, because as my number one thing is I help people fundraise and What I would say is I think it has to start first with the attitude of the executive at the top. If they don’t value fundraising, if they see it as like an annoyance in their day, if they don’t understand that it actually is a lifeblood of the organization, that trickles down to everybody, and I often had folks, and usually it was program people who thought of fundraising as like this dirty thing that like they didn’t have to do, but they could be here in the program.</p> <p>And I was like how do you think? You get paid. Like, how do you think we pay for the materials? How do you think this office gets paid for fundraising? I don’t want to spend too much time here because I feel like we could go down a rabbit hole. But what is the relationship orientation to money that you think is helpful versus harmful in the nonprofit sector?</p> <p><strong>ROBERT 5:58</strong></p> <p>That is a. great question, because as you’re talking about that, that’s the 1st thing that popped in my mind is these nonprofits just have a really distorted view of money and profit. Basically, it’s like, oh, it’s not about the money. It’s not about the money. It’s about the mission. You’re right.</p> <p>That is the goal. Although right underneath that, what funds the mission? And so there is a. Misnomer or misunderstanding about nonprofits that you’re not allowed to make a profit. Basically, that’s the attitude that a lot of these nonprofits have. it’s like making a profit is like a dirty word.</p> <p>And I remember sitting on this 1 board and the director came out with the budget for next year. And, she’s like, here’s the projected income and expenses, and at the end of the year, we’re going to have no money at the bottom line. There’s no profit. And she’s proud. And I’m looking at this thing going so we’re not going to put any money in the savings.</p> <p>We have no money left over to, improve that software, improve the website hire more staff, give raises, Put more money into the organization so it can grow and be healthier and do the mission, Because the IRS does allow a 501 C three to make a profit.</p> <p>It’s this misnomer like, Oh, you’re not supposed to make a profit. That’s bull. It’s not that you can’t make a profit. It’s, if I won’t see three there’s some restrictions on what you do with the profits, right? For profit organization, you do whatever you want. You pay shareholders, investors, all that kind of stuff.</p> <p>For a nonprofit organization, you just have to keep the profits within the organization. It has to be into the organization to grow a healthier organization. So hiring staff, giving raises improving software, getting more equipment, yada, yada, yada, the list goes on. you know, as you’re listening, thinking about what are all the things you need in your organization to build it and make it more healthier, more sustainable, more efficient.</p> <p>That’s all going to come from the bottom line. BEcause right now you’re just running on what you have, whatever your expenses are, that’s what they are. But all the additional things that you’re wanting and you’re wishing for, that’s going to come from the bottom line.</p> <p>And so not to be in love with money, but you have to healthy view that it is the lifeblood of your organization. It’s necessary. you don’t think about money. Just like even when I talk with my for profit clients, I say, don’t think of their sales number as just a number. I said, think about how many customers that you’re helping, because in general, in business and nonprofit, the same thing you’re providing a certain product or service a solution to somebody else’s problem.</p> <p>So the money, the sales in a for profit, it’s not so much money. it’s represents a customer that you’re helping. Even like with in a nonprofit. For every dollar that you bring in, how many people can you help or whatever that formula is, right?</p> <p>For each person that you help, how much income does it take to help them? I forgot what organization was years ago, but they had that commercial is, cents a day feeds a child for a month kind of thing. So you put the dollar value to a person, So you’ve got to think about that and not enough nonprofits really do that is put, how much money does it take to serve one person?</p> <p><strong>RHEA 8:38</strong></p> <p>tO play devil’s advocate, like I agree, impact numbers are really important. I think what is harder to measure is. Intangible impact, right? So it’s very easy to say okay, 30 cents a day feeds a child.</p> <p>What might be harder to say is what is the impact of feeding a child? What is the impact of this one child living, and I think, especially for like policy organizations, this is a really hard thing. because their horizon is like a 10, 20 year horizon. What is the impact of changing this particular policy?</p> <p>That’s much harder to quantify, I think. Let’s go back to something that I hear all my nonprofit people say okay, Robert, I hear you, but also I could argue a couple of different things that when we look at for profit ways in the nonprofit sector, and I experienced this myself. It’s not quite apples to apples.</p> <p>let me give you an example. When I had my budget, I would go to my board. We talk about the revenue. We talk about the expenses, but because a lot of my for profit board members were coming from the perspective of, selling stuff. They’re like, okay what can we expect this quarter? It’s it’s not quite so simple.</p> <p>It’s I can’t go out and just sell more widgets, right? It’s really about what is the cadence of people? Giving. So it’s usually like last quarter is when 30 percent of the money came in. It’s very susceptible to economic climate. right now, I know a lot of nonprofits are feeling the pinch because we’re in a recession and that’s where a lot of their donors are cutting back.</p> <p>talk about. How as a nonprofit, we can think about evening out the vicissitudes of a market.</p> <p><strong>ROBERT 10:05</strong></p> <p>Yeah. even just in a for profit circles, there’s similarities because not all business is the same, just like not all nonprofits are the same and there’s seasonal issues and there’s environmental issues, there’s political issues, there’s tax issues, there’s all kinds of stuff.</p> <p>for your organization, you just, all the things you outlined, yeah, let’s lay that out. there’s certain things we can’t expect. Like, when do donors donate the most? Statistically, it’s like that Christmas season. That’s the biggest season for fundraising.</p> <p>Right? And it’s usually the last day is the biggest push, right? For people to want to make sure they’re giving so they can get a tax deduction for the next year and that kind of stuff. certainly, economic issues, you got to plant those certain things that are relatively expected and an unexpected is, yeah, when there’s, or there’s a recession, cause nobody can forecast that but that’s also why you need to plan for that.</p> <p>So again, talking about profit, right? part of it is building reserve for those times, those lean periods that are going to happen. There’s a recession every eight years, historically, every eight years on average. Of course, this is like the part of the longest period since oh, 809 that we had without a recession.</p> <p>we were overdue. iN that period, though, and every organization should have been just stockpiling money, prepare for some of this. You got to. Think about those things. Those are things that are going to happen. We just don’t know when all the time. All those things that outline all the stressors, all the threats that can come upon an organization, you got to plan for that.</p> <p>that’s more important of why you need to continually be developing your donor base. Because when you have a strong donor base that really believes in your mission and they feel connected it because you and the board are reaching out to them on a regular basis and you develop those strong relationships, those economic factors, like a recession don’t hit you as hard.</p> <p>I know a nonprofit, I’m not on the board, but I’m a friend of mine. I really love what he does because he basically operates the ways we’re talking about. he grew last year, the last two years, he’s grown by a significant amount like 30%, I think it was in an old one or two, something like that.</p> <p>which. Was in a downturn like that for a nonprofit. That’s pretty much unheard of. And why? Because not only did he cultivate his donor base, but he was really tight on the mission. The organization runs tight. They’re focused. They don’t try to do too much, which is with death of a lot of nonprofits.</p> <p>They try to do too many things, too many service to provide too much and they just stretch the resources thin and therefore they’re very well Average at best on everything, instead of being very excellent at one thing. So he’s a great example of being tight on the mission, being focused on what they do, stay in their lane and Always be cultivating relationships and you see the outcome of when the recession hit. So what, happened was a lot of these people that pulled away from donating to some nonprofits funneled some of the resources in them because people are still giving, but when the recession hits, it’s just as a consumer, when your session hits, you’re just a little bit more particular about where you spend your money or where you don’t need your money.</p> <p>people are still going to give, don’t just accept the fact that there’s a recession and Oh, money’s going to go down is number one. It’s when you have to react to that, but proactively know that’s going to happen. And the number one, get reserves. Number two is continue. That’s what you have to be more intentional about developing organizations all the time and create that stickiness between you and a donor.</p> <p>And you’ll see less of a downturn in your donor base, even during a recession, or you might experience what my friend did was you actually see an increase.</p> <p><strong>RHEA 13:23</strong></p> <p>and that’s such an important point, because if you really develop a deep relationship with the genre, what they know is that in your brain, people think of their philanthropic relationships the same way they think about their family.</p> <p>Versus business, which is a different part of the brain. you’re never going to say to your kid like, you know what, I’m actually not going to be able to feed you right now because it’s a recession.</p> <p>let’s switch tacks a little bit. Cause I know this is something you’re very passionate about, which is organizational growth. What are the. Levers that you’ve seen that lead to not just growth, but sustainable, healthy growth. Because I think we’ve all seen situations where nonprofits get like that 1 big rent and then they expand, but it’s not sustainable over time.</p> <p>walk us through a framework for how we can think about growth.</p> <p><strong>ROBERT 14:04</strong></p> <p>time and money. Are the 2 factors into running and growing an organization, the time you put in and the money you bring in and also use. So it’s time and money issues with any organization, whether you’re for profit, nonprofit. So, yOu got to be very particular about number 1, you talk about time, the typical, especially the small nonprofits, they always talk about how much.</p> <p>Time. They don’t have how much money they don’t have and how many resources they don’t have. They’re always talking about what they don’t have.</p> <p><strong>RHEA 14:29</strong></p> <p>But honestly, even the name nonprofit is a negative. It doesn’t.</p> <p><strong>ROBERT 14:33</strong></p> <p>I hate that. I totally agree with you. I said, that is the kiss of death of naming it because it’s in your DNA now because you keep saying it.</p> <p>IF you say something enough, you just believe it. And so that’s why people think You can’t make profit. You can’t make money. Don’t make money. Don’t bring an income because it’s nonprofit. I’m like, no. don’t focus on what you don’t have, but focus on when you do have, you do have some time and you do have some money.</p> <p>Now we just got to make sure we utilize it to the best of our ability. Be very efficient, be very productive. Just don’t be busy. So with time, don’t just be busy. Cause a lot of nonprofits are very busy and doing nothing, but be very specific about your time. Don’t say yes to everything. We’re a big heart as a nonprofit.</p> <p>So we have big hearts. We want to say yes to everything. Just like I wanted to say yes to every board, right? But you start stretching yourself then you become less and less effective. So I have a One nonprofit, a lot of the small nonprofits, they get pulled on to add an additional service or step out of the lane, like one nonprofit.</p> <p>I’m on the board of is raising awareness for liver disease and liver is in their organizational name, and then they got. Requested, or they saw some opportunities in different diseases to do their work. And even to this extent that they wanted to think about changing their name.</p> <p>So it’s a little more generic. So not specific to liver disease. And I said, wait a 2nd, number 1 is. The founder survived liver disease as a child, as a three year old, a rare form of liver disease that he should not have survived, but yet he is. And he’s now a professional athlete, and he’s using that platform, his experience in this platform to raise awareness, to say that liver disease is not just for alcoholics and drug addicts.</p> <p>Or it can happen to anybody. Tight message, right? Experience totally makes sense. And also liver disease is one of those underrepresented diseases. as he started to launch his campaigns and liver disease, He was getting so much positive feedback. People saying, Oh, thank you for doing this.</p> <p>Nobody’s representing liver disease. No one like you is doing this and it’s on and on and on. Right? okay, we are in our lane. We’re doing something else. We’re making an impact. It’s something that no one’s doing or doing well. And all of a sudden they want to start to spread themselves out to other disease states.</p> <p>And I’m like, timeout, number one, you only have so much time, And we only have so much money. we can do all these things, but now we’ve got to spread all our time, money, and resources out across all these things. And what are we really going to do? you leave people in the dust of people that say, Hey, we want you.</p> <p>You’re a champion and we’re getting behind you. now all of a sudden you’re going to leave them in the dust.</p> <p><strong>RHEA 16:45</strong></p> <p>Yeah. let me ask this question because it’s coming up for me, which is I agree with you. I think we have to really go deep, not broad. We have to really own the space that we’re going to own.</p> <p>And I think there’s a tension here. And so my question is, how do you know, are you going deep on a particular issue? Or are you going to deep on an issue that like nobody else really cares about? I talked about the panda bears just. To be cheeky. I’m like, look, you could decide that like you want to pet the panda bears and the panda bears are like the most important thing.</p> <p>But if nobody else agrees with you, if the market does not agree with you, how do you know if it’s an ideal worth pursuing? Or it’s simply a question of the market needs more education.</p> <p><strong>ROBERT 17:23</strong></p> <p>sometimes it’s both that market needs education and it’s something worth pursuing even this liver disease issue is the average person.</p> <p>If they’re not an alcoholic or drug addict, they’re not going to get tested for certain forms of HPV or whatever. There’s all kinds of other non alcoholic related liver diseases. there is education that needs to happen with the average Person reinforcement when you 1st start, like testing the market in a 4 prop when you have a new product or something or service to test the market, right?</p> <p>And see if people are responding in a positive way, if not, then yeah, it’s going to be a long sludge. If you really want to go into this and really educate the market, it’s going to be a long sludge to do that. But if you’re seeing these immediate responses, then, okay, people just aren’t.</p> <p>problem aware or solution aware, but all of a sudden it resonates because maybe they had a son or daughter that was diagnosed recently. And then now, all of a sudden it’s yeah, there weren’t alcoholics or drug addicts either, and you’re doing great work and then, but all of a sudden you get this grassroots thing that keeps going and they become even your donors or become ambassadors for.</p> <p>The brand or the organization that helps spread the word as well, because in fact, same organization just surprisingly had this lady reach out to us saying that, her son died of, liver disease and in lieu of gifts, flowers, whatever he said, just donate to this foundation.</p> <p>that was not only getting donors, but they’re also educating people at the same time. So that’s an example of what you can be donating, also educating from your database. And yeah, it’s we got pretty immediate feedback and then all of a sudden, next thing you know, we said, okay, let’s go in.</p> <p>I don’t think he was going to give up on it, but it just gave that extra energy and push to say, let’s get going. And then when you hear these off stories of people, we didn’t know they weren’t donors of ours, supportive reserves, but all of a sudden he just knew about the foundation and just sends out, this letter.</p> <p>Hey, just donate to them. Yeah. And</p> <p><strong>RHEA 19:10</strong></p> <p>so I think the I, if I can unpack some of the things is, have an idea, but. Also be willing to test the idea and if it seems like after some time that the idea is not getting traction don’t be so married to your idea that you go down with the ship.</p> <p>Because you might think that, the panda bears. Need help or whatever, but if the market isn’t telling you that is going to be a priority to your point, it’s going to be a long, slow sledge. Let’s talk about time for a 2nd. Because I, this is really resonating for me as an ed.</p> <p>I always felt like I was so time strapped. Like, I don’t know what and yet. I think what’s also true is I spent a lot of time doing things that were not effective and we’re not growing the organization. can you give us any tips about how to organize one’s time in the most efficient and high leverage way possible?</p> <p>Like, how do I know if I’m wasting time? Cause everyone’s busy, right? Like I’m so busy, but are you actually moving the needle or are you just busy?</p> <p><strong>ROBERT 20:03</strong></p> <p>Yeah. So you got to use the term productive. Am I being productive? Always ask that question. I’m being productive because we know we’re busy.</p> <p>Everybody’s busy. That’s a given. Everybody’s busy. So you don’t have to talk about how busy you are because everybody is, but ask yourself how productive you are. So how to do that is I just do a data dump. I do that for myself. Kelly does it. We do it every once in a while. All of our clients. The first thing we do is data.</p> <p>What are all the things that you do in your business? what are the top two to three things that you’re best qualified to do that will move the needle? That’s productive time. And most likely That’s the stuff you spend the least amount of time on or your most productive things, right?</p> <p>The rest, the other 95 percent on your list. Now, what do we do with that? you either figure out ways to automate that stuff to make it streamlined. So it’s faster and more efficient, or you delegate to others or, a higher virtual assistant or something, can you delegate it or do you eliminate it?</p> <p>automate delegate or eliminate and eliminate doesn’t have to mean totally not do it, but at least minimize it or eliminate even for a season stop doing it. the 1st thing, identify those 1st, 2 to 3 things. And then with that, you just have to figure, okay, when do I do these on a regular basis?</p> <p>How do I do this in a regular race? And just going to make time, you put out your calendar. And come up with a blank calendar and just say for me, Mondays, the whole day is just working on the business. All the most productive things I can do And then Wednesday mornings is my outreach day.</p> <p>I guess you can call it sales, but it’s, I don’t have necessarily have specific appointments or anything set up, I just start reaching out to people and it’s not just it. Potential clients or clients. It’s actually friends, family, and then clients, potential clients. It’s my relationship day.</p> <p>I call it because our relationships suffer as we’re building an organization. that’s one way to stay grounded for self is also just making sure I’m staying connected to my other relationships besides work stuff and then Friday mornings is my finance morning is when I go over the P and L’s and the balance sheets and that kind of stuff.</p> <p>maybe paying for things that I’m not even using or not even utilizing very well. And then you have to make these decisions every once in a while to keep doing this or just stop it. or is there something else I can replace for it?</p> <p>Or, why are my margins getting a little bit smaller? am I discounting my prices too much here or All these things if you don’t see it on paper or, on the screen, you lose focus on what you’re really doing. And sometimes you’re paying out on things you shouldn’t be paying out on.</p> <p>like for me, there’s that one day and then there’s that Wednesday morning and Friday morning where there’s some specific things that I do that I wouldn’t do otherwise. Because I would just get caught up in doing those 2 other things, the relationship stuff and the finance stuff are just very important to your organization.</p> <p><strong>RHEA 22:26</strong></p> <p>Let me ask this question, because I think this is an interesting 1, as, I work with mostly executive directors on fundraising and I’m of the opinion, especially in small organizations that executive directors are the main fundraiser, right? You are the main relationship person. You’re the 1 people want to talk to, et cetera, et cetera.</p> <p>Now, again, I don’t want to. Cast to what brought a net here. But what I have found is that founders in particular, when you ask them to list all of the things that they’re doing, the primary thing that they do is program stuff because they started the organization and they want to pet the panda bear to yada, yada, yada.</p> <p>What do you do if you look at this list of stuff and you’re like, okay, I know that the thing I should be doing is the fundraising, the marketing, the outreach, but it’s. A, not what I want to be doing or B, not what I’m skilled at doing, like I am not the best person to do it. What do you do then? Do you delegate?</p> <p>Do you upskill? What’s the strategy there?</p> <p><strong>ROBERT 23:19</strong></p> <p>long term you may want to delegate or hire and train a fundraiser and all that, but in the short term, yes, the executive still has to do it because if you don’t have already someone skilled at doing it, you still got to train them up, which means guess what?</p> <p>You need to take them out and show them how to do it. You can’t just take it in the classroom, right? You got to go out and build relationships because you’re the one that has the relationships. number one I always start with asking some questions if you don’t do it, who’s going to do it well.</p> <p>And if, again, if nobody’s doing it, What are the things you want to accomplish with your organization and what’s it going to take? the money is, you can’t get around it, right? Unless you cut something else or whatever. But at the end of the day, if you want to build and grow this organization, the way you envision it.</p> <p>Then what needs to happen, right? And even if we do say we do want to hire a fundraising person in the meantime, you still need to do it because you have the best relationship. Like I said, totally agree. And so don’t think about fundraising as sales Yes. It’s not comfortable. I’m an introvert, but I spent 20 years in sales and I was pretty good at it.</p> <p>I won some awards, some trips, national awards. And so when it comes to, you’re not good at it. I don’t believe everybody can be good at fundraising. It’s just a matter of tapping into how you do relationships, Because people have a, like in sales, just like sales and fundraising have this idea of what kind of person it takes to fundraiser has to be this energetic, very charismatic person.</p> <p>That’s going to go out and connect with people and, you know. but some of the best fundraisers and salespeople that I know are actually introverts. Because introverts listen more than talk because believe it or not, you’ll sell more or get more donations by talking less and listening more.</p> <p><strong>RHEA 24:59</strong></p> <p>100 percent of the mission. I don’t know. And maybe this is something that you. Found in your business, but I’m trying to ditch the pitch. I don’t know who told fundraisers that this was a good idea Really? Like I have never donated to anything or bought anything on the basis of a pitch.</p> <p>Come on. Like I’ve bought on the basis of someone helping me to solve a problem I have. Sure. I’ve bought on the basis of someone like connecting with me and be like, Hey, I can really help you. Yes. 100%. A pitch? Forget about it. Also, it feels sleazy. to get back to your point, I want everyone to hear this.</p> <p>If you are an ED and you assess that you are not spending enough time on fundraising, and you either do not want to Are not willing to, or aren’t willing to invest time and money and resources into either training someone or getting the skills yourself, then perhaps I would suggest that you might want to consider.</p> <p>Are you the right person to lead the organization? I know that’s harsh, but. I’m going to die on that hill.</p> <p><strong>ROBERT 25:51</strong></p> <p>Sometimes you got to make these tough decisions, for sure. You got to everything, basically, is what I say. But also, in your current position, whether you think can or can’t be a good fundraiser, especially for those that think they can’t be, you have the capability. Everybody has an ability to develop some kind of relationships.</p> <p>Getting people to donate is not about selling and, as you say, pitching them. It’s really about cultivating relationships. And not everybody you talk to is going to be a donor and you need to accept that too.</p> <p><strong>RHEA 26:16</strong></p> <p>Yeah when we think about organizations that grow companies or nonprofits or whatever, the company that organization needs different things at different times.</p> <p>From its leader, right? it’s helpful to think about seasons of growth, and it could be that you were the right person at the startup portion. In order to be the person at the sustainability portion, you’re either going to have to. Up level yourself and or maybe accept that you don’t want to up level yourself and you find someone else to do it.</p> <p>But I’d love for you to talk a little bit about the. Responding to the different demands of a growing organization at different stages of growth.</p> <p><strong>ROBERT 26:50</strong></p> <p>that’s a great question. In a business context, it’s are you a starter or builder? entrepreneurs are like the serial entrepreneurs, the great starters.</p> <p>They’re very bad builders. They can get people energized and get going as far as sustainability and building an organization, putting all the right people and processes in place. That’s a builder. You need a builder. And so either as an entrepreneur, as a CEO, right? Of the business you start, but then you have to be very intentional about bringing in a president.</p> <p>To build or you let the new CEO bill. That’s a great question because it’s very relevant to any organization is you got to understand what your skill set is. Are you a starter or a builder and the starter can maintain CEO position because they’re the visionary, but you got to make sure you bring a build place, otherwise this thing ain’t going nowhere.</p> <p><strong>RHEA 27:33</strong></p> <p>Yeah it’s so good. when I heard the the visionary integrator model, I was like, Oh, I am a natural visionary. I’m a starter. I will start stuff, but like, when it comes to the processes and systems, I’m like, I also take care of that. Right. Exactly. But what really sapped my energy was trying to be a builder and I could do it if I forced myself to do it, but it didn’t really come naturally to me.</p> <p>What comes naturally to me is to be a starter. Okay. Robert, this has been so good. Anything else that we should know as we’re listening to you and we’re like, I want to grow. I want to be smart about it. I want to be intentional. Anything that you would advise that we haven’t touched on yet?</p> <p><strong>ROBERT 28:07</strong></p> <p>have a good board and be very intentional about how you select your board.</p> <p>Because number 1 is, cause I can go on. There’s all kinds of stuff. I’d say what you should do, but at the end of the day, right? As executive director, what we just talked about is you have a specific skill set. That’s good for your organization, but you don’t want to try and do everything.</p> <p>And when you’re wearing multiple hats, then yes, the business, the organization is not going to go too far, right? You’ve got to be very tight on what you do and then build around you. And part of that is the board. If you, even if you don’t have the resources to hire a team right now, but everybody can have a board and in the beginning stages, you might have a more active board where they are doing and be participating in the fundraising, right?</p> <p>That’s 1 thing I think board members should be part of anyway, is how can the boards be a little more active in the fundraising, but also beyond that is surround yourself with a marketer, a legal person and HR person, right? Think about what an organization needs and build your board with people that have those skill sets.</p> <p>Cause as you grow, you’re going to need people to talk to and say, Hey, how do I do this? Cause you’re not, that’s not you. You just have the mission and the heart to do this thing, but you’re not trained in HR or legal or marketing and all that. And that’s fine. We don’t need you to be the expert and all that, but surround yourself with good people.</p> <p>To be able to help you as you’re building an organization and be okay with being challenged. We have had some very difficult discussions in our board meetings with the founders. Really uncomfortable ones, but at the end of the day, It was needed and it was healthy for the organization because you just don’t want to surround yourself with a board of people.</p> <p>It just says, yes, you don’t want to do something with. Yes, people. Yes. Do this. Yes. Do that. Yeah. I’ve seen boards like, yes, do that. I’m like wait, wait, wait, time to know. So be okay with being challenged because that is going to sharpen you and make your organization better. So you don’t want to surround yourself with homogeneous people.</p> <p>You want to heterogeneous mix of people.</p> <p><strong>RHEA 29:53</strong></p> <p>I just want to pause there for a second, because I think the question is, what does the organization need is really important. And I find this a lot with founders I think sometimes founders get their ego really mixed up in the organization.</p> <p>And so it becomes about what’s best for me as a person versus what’s best for the organization, particularly if they. Feel like the organization is, I hear this so much this is my baby. No, it’s not right. Like you don’t own this. this is bigger than you. having the recognition and enough self awareness to realize that we are in service to a mission and.</p> <p>If the thing that is right for the organization may not be for you to be at the head of it, like that’s okay too, which is hard. Sometimes necessary. All right, Robert, this has been really fun. Any last thoughts as we wrap up here, where can folks find you?</p> <p><strong>ROBERT 30:40</strong></p> <p>I know you guys, all of you founders have a great heart and a lot of great, a big vision. I’d say if there’s 1 takeaway right now, today is to start being intentional about your time and who you surround yourself with the board.</p> <p>get very specific the kind of needs that you have. What kind of support do you need in your circle and talking about your board? And that’ll help how you use your time and then get that board mix. mArried entrepreneur.ceo is our main website. that’s where you can get everything.</p> <p>I know we’re talking to nonprofits, but we’ve gotta download even our book Tandem. The Married Entrepreneurs for Greater Work-Life Balance. Everything applies because it talks about, how do you balance it all? You got this mission, this organization that you’re married to, right?</p> <p>But you don’t want that to be the mistress in your actual real marriage. And so you want to have some balance in your life. And also there is aspect what we talked about, how do you grow an organization? How do you utilize your time and your money and all that, and all those things apply to building a healthy organization and just building a healthier life.</p> <p>Yeah. And just go to our website, marriedentrepreneur. co and you can follow us on, Instagram and Facebook to power couples by design.</p> <p><strong>RHEA 31:41</strong></p> <p>fantastic. We’ll make sure to put all of that information in the show notes, Robert, thank you so much for your time. This has been really fun.</p> <p><strong>ROBERT 31:47</strong></p> <p>Yeah.</p> <p>This was a blast. Thanks I really good time.</p> <p><strong>RHEA 31:49</strong></p> <p>Thanks so much. Take care everyone. 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