Happy holidays, friends. As we wind down, I wanted to give you the gift of this podcast episode with my dear friend Glasa Gottschalk. Glasa is a coach who specializes in working with women of color. We talk about Glasa’s own professional journey, how coaching is different than therapy, how coaching can help you progress in your career and in life and how to make the case to hire a coach.
Glasa is thoughtful, wise and brings a healing energy to the conversation. This was such a delight and I hope it brings you much joy and wisdom in the final days of 2022.
To connect with Glasa, check out: https://www.gotogii.com/
Quote from Glasa “Coaching is a space where you want to be able to be 100, there’s no sugarcoating here”
Episode Transcript
RHEA WONG 00:00
Welcome to Nonprofit Lowdown. I’m your host, Rhea Wong. Hey, podcast listeners! It’s Rhea Wong with you once again. So this must mean it Nonprofit Lowdown. I am so excited because today I am speaking with my friend, Glasa Gottschalk.
RHEA WONG 00:15
She is a mentor, a coach, and a founder, and we are talking about coaching for BIPOC leaders today. So Glasa, welcome to the show.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 00:24
I’m so happy to be here. Thank you for having me.
RHEA WONG 00:27
Well, I am excited to have you and we had a chance to hang out in Nashville recently, which was so fun.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 00:33
I had so much fun.
RHEA WONG 00:35
So much fun. We ate so well.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 00:39
Quite possibly the best meal of my entire life.
RHEA WONG 00:43
Oh, my God! I know that meal at Lucas was for real. Okay! So before we jump into all of the questions, tell us a little bit about yourself and your career.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 00:53
Yeah, so I actually came from a small town and had the opportunity to go through a program called Upward Bound, which was really influential and opened me up to other opportunities. I spent about 10 years in the banking industry, rising up the ranks climbing the corporate ladder, and then decided to hop out into a startup environment.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 01:18
I absolutely fell in love with startups, and just the creativity and the ability to have an impact and see that create other things in the business. And then I decided to take a gap year, and through that gap year started a consulting company, consulting leaders and owners on ways to increase their profitability and revenues.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 01:38
And that really led me to what I do now. Because I was noticing some links and the way that they showed up and their mindset and the way it was affecting the success and sustainability. And so I got curious and decided, like, how do we bring some more awareness to this to bring the link and to connect the dots?
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 01:57
And so in 2020, I transitioned to business and working with leaders and entrepreneurs on their mindset, and creating the different outcomes and life that they desire.
RHEA WONG 02:10
I love that you say that because the more I get into this entrepreneurial journey, the more I realize it’s all about mindset. And like strategies and tactics, you can talk all day long, but it’s an inside job. It’s just about like, where’s your head at?
RHEA WONG 02:22
How are you creating the mental acuity and space to thrive and excel? So I know you are very passionate about helping folks of color, specifically women of color in our coaching. So talk to me a little bit, as a woman of color for yourself, where are you seeing the gaps for women of color in the coaching space?
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 02:43
Yeah, this is a big one. There are several gaps. I will say in the coaching industry when it comes to coaching people of color and women of color, the first thing that I see is just representation.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 02:54
There is not a lot of representation out there when it comes to having coaches of color. For a long time, the coaching industry has pretty much been for kind of high-executive, high-performance, high-level CEOs, which have been predominantly white, but we know that from historical data.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 03:13
And now what we’re starting to see is like this influx of coaches coming into the industry going through coaching certification programs, which kind of set you up for the foundation. But then when they actually get into the industry, and they start working with individuals in the space of being a woman of color, people of color experience trauma, both lived and observed.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 03:36
And that stays with us there are very real barriers and oppression that exist. And in coaching, in wanting the client to progress and wanting the pursuit of growing fast, we often skip over that trauma or don’t acknowledge and validate that trauma or oppression or barriers that exist.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 03:57
And what that does as a coach is if you’re creating a space where someone is supposed to show up at their highest self and bring their whole self authentic self, we have to allow the space for individuals to bring that.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 04:11
And so I see in the coaching industry that we don’t do that. We say we’re not looking back at trauma, we’re only looking forward to progress. Or, we’re not looking at actual oppressive systems that people experience. We’re only looking at the opportunities.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 04:28
But the problem is until you acknowledge those until you understand what those things are, you can’t broaden your view to see the other opportunities that exist because you’re in that pain. You’re in that hurt of the trauma of those lived experiences.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 04:46
And so in coaching, we see this a lot. I’ve actually had clients come to me where they don’t feel like they can bring that piece of themselves into the coaching space. And we need coaches to do better.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 04:58
We need them to on understand the oppressive systems and the barriers that clients are experiencing in real life so that we can leave space to explore that.
RHEA WONG 05:11
Glasa, I’m so glad you said that. So I have a personal story to share. I was doing, I had a life coach, and I was talking to this person, actually, it was like a series of webcasts. Anyway, talking to them after those Asian women were killed in March.
RHEA WONG 05:24
And it was directly after that, and I was experiencing a lot of psychic and emotional pain around that. And the first question they asked me was, well, what are your thoughts about that? And how is it creating your feelings?
RHEA WONG 05:34
And it was like, what are my thoughts about that? Seriously? It was like, there was no discussion of like, this is a really painful thing that has happened that you are experiencing trauma around and I was just like, I’m done.
RHEA WONG 05:46
I can’t… Like I cannot with this. So talk to me about how you work with clients to both acknowledge the trauma, acknowledge the institutional racism that we face, and still move forward.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 05:59
Yeah, so it’s a part of our experience. When we think about coaching, like in coaching, we talk about kind of these filters that we see the world through. And those are made up of our values, our beliefs, our experiences, the way we were brought up religion, and spirituality, like all of these play into the way that we show up in the world.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 06:24
And so trauma is part of that experience. And when I work with clients, one of the things I tried to do is to leave space for them to unpack. Now, I am in no way saying that coaching is a replacement for therapy.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 06:38
In trauma, there is real healing that needs to take place. But what I am saying is there’s a place where it overlaps where you begin to see that, like, I am no longer a victim of my trauma, but I’m taking the story, and I want to use it to propel me forward.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 06:54
And so in coaching, what that looks like is holding that space. Sometimes, you don’t have to progress someone forward in a session. You can just listen. You can hear them. You can ask questions to get curious about their experience, what are they making that mean about them?
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 07:10
What are they taking forward from that experience? And not try to make it an outcome for that particular session. Sometimes, just holding and creating that space and acknowledging and validating what they experience can be the most powerful and healing space that you can provide for a client.
RHEA WONG 07:30
Yeah, that is so deep because I think, especially for the type a people, we’re always in problem-solving mode. Like, I just want to fix this and move forward. But if we actually operated differently, and just allowed space to have a human experience, how might that be different?
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 07:50
Yeah! We’re all humans. We’re all going through our life. And as we do this, right? We have a responsibility just to be better humans, to like, and acknowledge the people around us and their lived-in shared experiences because we’re all coming from different places.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 08:11
And when we come from that different place, when we experience things, we can view them very differently. And so that’s why when you’re in the coaching space if you’re not a person of color, this becomes very important to like, understand what are these factors at play.
RHEA WONG 08:27
As you’re talking, it also reminds me of our mutual friend, Dr. Eugene Choi, and how he talks about the brain being in survival or in executive mode. And until we can actually unpack the trauma, we can’t get into executive mode because our amygdala just freaking out and we’re just thinking about survival.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 08:45
Yeah! First of all, I have to say love Eugene. He’s amazing.
RHEA WONG 08:50
We all love Eugene, and everyone listening should go back and listen to his podcast interview with me because he is amazing.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 08:56
Yeah! He’s fantastic. And actually, he was one of the people who gave me a really great analogy to show how trauma carries sport, which is if we’re going through life linear like if we’re thinking about traveling along the line, there becomes a point as people of color, we are at high risk to experience trauma in our life.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 09:18
So something happens right along that line. And there’s like, we stop there for a second, and we make it mean something about us. And what happens is the feelings that are attached to that, the thoughts that are attached to that progress forward throughout us in life.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 09:33
And this is where the healing journey comes in, which is understanding the connection about how that traumatic event has influenced and impacted the way that you show up, view things, and engage with the world moving forward.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 09:46
Because without that awareness, we’re moving forward just in that survival mode, like on that pattern, that repetition, like our mind wants to keep things simple and safe.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 09:58
And so if we continue to do that without actually having awareness of it, then we’re setting ourselves up to continue to do the same thing over and over and over again. So awareness, 100% is where it starts to move out of that survival brain and into the executive function.
RHEA WONG 10:16
So what is the difference between therapy and coaching for folks who are new to even thinking about coaching?
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 10:23
Yeah, so that’s a fantastic question, and depending on who you ask, you might get a lot of different answers. But here’s how I like to think of it. Therapy is very much focused on a level of healing and sufficiency.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 10:38
So if we think about you as kind of like a whole person, it’s kind of taking a look at the past and kind of healing, mending and bringing you to a place of understanding and like being able to propel forward, so present.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 10:52
Coaching is very much focused on, okay, I’m here, and I want to go here. And this is scary. I may know how to get there. But I’m super scared to do it. There are some fears or some mindset blocks, or things that are making it me that I can’t do, but I really want to go there.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 11:12
And so coaching is looking forward to like, how do I take all of this up to where I’m at now, and start to unpack it a little. I like to use this analogy of like a suitcase. So you’ve come through life with like a suitcase, and everybody is kind of throwing their stuff on the suitcase.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 11:28
So it’s kind of like, you get reprimanded for something, and then you make it mean that. You’re not good enough, or you had situations with family members that happened and you make it mean that you’re not loved.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 11:39
So everybody is throwing this kind of piece of clothing into your luggage, and you’re lugging this through life. And at a point, you’re like, what is this? Why is this so heavy? Why do things feel so hard for me? And in therapy, you’re kind of taking a look of like, what is this?
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 11:57
Oh, this is a red shirt. This is this. This is this. And you’re looking at it. In coaching, we’re saying, okay, what of this do I want to keep? And what do I want to let go of? What can I throw out? Do I even want a suitcase?
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 12:09
Maybe I want a backpack. Like maybe I don’t even want anything, I want to be like free foot feet, you know. And so you get to decide. You observe all of these things that have impacted you that you’ve picked up.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 12:19
And you look forward and say, how do I want this to look going forward? What do I want in this bag? Or do I even want this bag moving forward?
RHEA WONG 12:27
I love that analogy. It’s so good. Everyone to like, you’re kind of like rekindle with people’s lives. You’re like what sparks joy? And what are you going to let go of? It’s so good. So let me see this. Is it just to play devil’s advocate?
RHEA WONG 12:40
So as a coach, much like a therapist, you’re not supposed to really bring yourself into the conversation. You’re kind of a guide if you will. So why is it important to have a coach who has a similar lived experience? Like why is it important for you to serve women of color specifically?
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 12:59
Yeah! So this is a very great question and one that I think about quite often. And being in the coaching industry, you are right. There’s a separation when you enter that coaching space of being a neutral space to kind of reflect and mirror the other person.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 13:17
But I think there’s also a place of my experience that comes into play of understanding if I’m witnessing somebody unpack something that is traumatic, because I’ve experienced trauma in my past, I understand that it doesn’t have to move forward in that session.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 13:37
And so for me, I take that shared experience as a place to hold space for that individual. And also to understand that like either an example, like me showing up in the world, as a coach talking about mindset, talking about things that are available, representing women of color, I get to be that example to show them that you don’t have to continue down the path that you’ve been.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 14:02
You can step into that big, audacious goal that you want. And yes, it will be scary, but it’s possible. It’s just a matter of you walking into it and understanding the factors that are at play.
RHEA WONG 14:16
So if I’m listening to you and my play, so that sounds awesome, what are the indicators that I might be ready for coaching? Like if I’m listening to you, is it that I’ve reached a certain plateau in my career?
RHEA WONG 14:29
Is it that I feel like you’re achieving the things like when you achieve? Is it that I feel like I want a different something different in my life? Like how do I know that I would be a good candidate for coaching?
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 14:40
Oh, this is a good question, too. I want to say a lot of people think that coaching is just for, like, I want to start a business and I don’t know how to start it. But coaching is really a space where you can bring more self-awareness and understanding about what it is that you want to bring more clarity.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 15:00
I’ve had clients that have come in, and they’re super high functioning. They are very great at their job. They’re working towards their next promotion, but they just want more peace and joy in their life. I’ve also had clients come in where they’re in a corporate career, and they’re just kind of tired of the BS, and they want to transition out and do something else.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 15:23
And so we work to help them create a plan. So I don’t think that it’s necessary that they’re unhappy, although being unhappy can be being discontent can be a really big indicator. But I think it’s that you know that there’s something else out there for you. But you’re just not exactly sure how to create it.
RHEA WONG 15:40
I’m really thinking in my own mind about the tension between the internal self and the external world. So I know that for you, you’ve talked about being in the corporate world, being in a very sort of macho, predominantly male, white environment.
RHEA WONG 15:56
And on the other side, we talk about bringing our whole selves to work or feeling like we’re being our authentic selves. I think often, especially for women of color, we’re in spaces where our whole selves are not fully welcomed. The lived experience is not fully welcomed.
RHEA WONG 16:16
And so I guess my question is, how do we reconcile that coaching about reconciling ourselves to succeeding in this role that is not fully welcoming of all of who we are? Or is it about taking your ball and going home and creating your own reality?
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 16:37
I don’t look at this as an either-or question. I’ve been in spaces where I’ve witnessed people show up as their true authentic selves. And it is looked at as a negative, nothing unprofessional.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 16:51
But I’ll give you an example. I happen to volunteer for a nonprofit, and our executive director got emotional in a meeting over a very good cause that we were trying to create. And that was deemed as like, don’t bring your emotions into the meeting, being a woman didn’t look at that as a negative or something that had effects.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 17:14
I looked at, this woman who cares so deeply for the people that we serve and the impact that we’re trying to create that it creates a physical reaction for her. So when I look at this in a broader perspective, it’s about what situation are you in currently.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 17:32
You have an opportunity to make a conscious choice about do you want to show up and be bold and bring in your whole authentic self in an arrest. It potentially could be at a rest. Or do I want to create some new reality? Do I want to find a space where I can be 100% authentic?
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 17:52
And I think as coaches like, it is not our job to make that decision for women. They get to decide because it’s a journey. It’s not something that we just show up one day and say, I’m gonna be myself and like, be the baddest version of myself and the boldest version of myself.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 18:07
It’s something that’s a journey along the way. And what I’ve witnessed over time is the more that women start to step into that space, the more that they want to create it for themselves, meaning that they want to step into positions of leadership, or create companies that create that environment for other women.
RHEA WONG 18:24
Yeah! I’m just thinking about that, quote, I’m gonna mangle it. But essentially, it’s no measure of both to change yourself to conform to a sick world. And I think that there’s so much about corporate culture or even nonprofit culture that is really based on white supremacy.
RHEA WONG 18:41
So are we really trying to change ourselves to conform to this, which is, frankly, a very sick structure, versus not participating in that? And then the other piece, too, and I know, you’ve heard this a lot, too, is the ways in which women of color in particular asked to do emotional labor within the work.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 19:02
Yeah, so it is, like the quote you’re saying about the sick world, it’s like, yes. But we need women in leadership to show up in that manner to be able to create systems of change. And sometimes that might take a little bit of compromise along the way, in order to reach those areas where they can have the most influence and impact.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 19:26
And so that’s what I say when it becomes a conscious choice. Sometimes women decide that they want to take that risk. Like I want to be able to maybe be at 80% instead of 100 authenticities to start moving up the ladder so that I can create that change.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 19:29
Sometimes, we had enough. Like we want to throw in the towel and just create anew but it’s not our job to share, what the path is. It’s about recognizing the individual and what’s important to them. Sometimes making the change from within is more important to an individual starting their own thing.
RHEA WONG 20:02
Yeah, I really love that. Because what I hear you saying is that we all get to have a choice. We all get to decide what we’re up for, like, are we up to change from the inside? Are we up for taking our ball and starting our own thing? Like, you get to be a grown-up and decide what you want to do.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 20:20
Yeah, exactly! I’m just thinking of leadership positions. It’s like if Obama would have gotten to the race was like this country is overt racism, and I don’t want to rise to the top, it would have never created an opportunity for change. Sometimes we need people who are willing to stay in it in order to create some greater good.
RHEA WONG 20:40
And shout out here to Sheila, she gave me the quote. It is no measure of health to be well-adjusted to a profoundly sick society. So thanks for that, Sheila. Our last question for me before we open it up to folks in the chat.
RHEA WONG 20:51
So you left said to me in conversations that we’ve had that leaders’ own stuff, “creates the environment to be ineffective.” So what are some examples of that? And how do we know if it applies to us? Because I think so often, like when I hear things like, well, what are your limiting beliefs?
RHEA WONG 21:08
I’m like, well, if I knew what they were, they wouldn’t be a limiting belief. It’s almost like it’s like telling a fish that they’re wet, you’re like, I don’t know, yet no water there. I’ve just been in this little fishbowl my whole life. So I tell you about our stuff.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 21:23
In my journey through leadership, I’ve always pretty much been in like leadership and business development. I’ve noticed these threads. So I’ve been a person who’s been very much in the personal development space.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 21:36
I crave self-awareness. Like I want to understand how I work, how my brain works, and everything so that I can operate better. But not all of us are like that. And so I’ve witnessed through my journey, leaders and business owners, who have personal things that are impacting the sustainability and success of what it is they’re trying to create.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 21:57
So I’ll give you some examples of this. For instance, I consulted with an owner, who we were working on building their revenues and increasing their profitability. We were having great success, and they were having huge cashflow issues. And so what I came to uncover was that their personal spending was out of control.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 22:15
So it doesn’t matter how much income you make, if you’re not willing to address that, hey, I need to get my personal stuff under control. But leaders and business owners, don’t want to do this, because that’s scary. It’s like I am who I am.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 22:29
That’s who I am. Or I’ve seen leaders who were working on bringing new clients, and they are having some attrition. They’re having issues with the service from the team members that they have. And they don’t want to address them because they feel a sense of loyalty because that person has been with them so long.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 22:48
And so instead of like coaching them, moving them to a different position, or having conversations about what a transition might look like, they avoid it. And so the impact of that is that you have bad team culture.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 23:03
You’re having issues with income and clients leaving and it ripples. It creates this ripple effect throughout the organization. And so when leaders experience this, it comes from a place of, oh, if we could only do this, that would solve it. And I think when leaders do that, we need to get a little bit more curious about what is the whole picture here.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 23:28
What are all the factors at play? And what is my part in this? Especially as a leader, especially as a business owner, when we’re countering stuff, we have a part and what that is. We have a part in what it’s creating in our business, in our organization.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 23:44
And so I prompt leaders to get curious about, you know, what are you avoiding here? What are the things that are making you feel super uncomfortable? Those are usually the places we need to step into.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 23:57
If you could wave a magic wand and fix that, what would that look like? And then what does that require a view in order to do that? And so those are things that I like to prompt people to get curious about what is my part in this.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 24:11
What am I owning as part of the situation? Because 100% I have a part in this because I’m the leader of the organization. I’m the business owner. And so there’s an opportunity for them to step into self-awareness there.
RHEA WONG 24:25
I would change tax a little bit because I think this is so important what you’re saying. And I think that there might be some misconceptions or stigmas around hiring and coaches, it might be like, oh, you’re underperforming, therefore you need a coach.
RHEA WONG 24:38
On the flip side, I know that organizations and companies are really starting to become very interested in hiring folks of color for executive roles, but without that support, it may not be setting them up for success.
RHEA WONG 24:53
So I guess a two-part question here is number one, how do you dispel the myth that coaching is coming from a deficit position as opposed to wanting to level up and be the best version of yourself?
RHEA WONG 25:06
And the second part question, what would your advice be to companies and nonprofits that are looking to hire folks of color, and make sure that they are successful in that role?
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 25:19
In the first part, I will say coaches typically don’t like to come in, if this is like a last-ditch effort. And typically in this space, it’s because the person hasn’t been provided the support or hasn’t been provided clear expectations from the get-go.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 25:36
And so instead of really addressing and supporting them in process, it’s like, alright, here’s like the last ditch, we’re gonna give you a coach. So we can cover our behind from a risk profile, and know that we did everything that we did.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 25:52
And that’s really a hard place to come in from a coach because that’s one of the most powerful spaces to come into as a coach is a choice. That person is being provided a choice. They’re being mandated to do that coaching.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 26:04
And so then you’d have a lot of barriers that come up, not to say it’s impossible, but it’s just a much harder space. What I would recommend for individuals, is as coaching is a space that is powerful for anyone at any level.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 26:20
And so I would look at the most influential people, the people that have the opportunity for the most impact in your organization. And that is a space to really support them with a coach for higher influence and higher impact. It’s like the 80-20 rule.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 26:36
You spend the most amount of energy on that 20% that are producing 80% of the results because they’re going to influence and filter that out. So with that, there is a level of like, when you’re thinking about bringing in communities of color to your organization, I’ve read a lot of great data on cluster hiring if it’s possible for your organization.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 26:59
So hiring individuals and groups instead of one at a time gives them the opportunity to come in as a group and to really be connected and know that other people are going through that shared experience together. There’s also a lot of opportunity.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 27:13
They don’t necessarily have to be at the same level, I actually acquired one of my mentors through this exact process. They had a whole bunch of people coming into a training session. She was a VP.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 27:25
I was starting out as a part-time teller, and we just kind of connected and she became my unofficial mentor. And I will credit her largely for my rise through the corporate because she was instrumental in that. So cluster hiring, allowing people from different levels of the organization to be together is a great way to set them up for success.
RHEA WONG 27:45
I also just want to advocate here for the nonprofits, or the companies that are listening, especially if you’re a board member, providing support, particularly for your executives of color is critical. Because I think, on the one hand, we often don’t think about resourcing people properly.
RHEA WONG 28:05
And then, on the other hand, I think that there’s a reluctance. Let’s just be honest, women of color are reluctant to ask for things for themselves. We’re told to just like, yeah, here are the crumbs. Have at it.
RHEA WONG 28:16
So I think it’s both sides, it’s as companies and organizations, we have to be ready to provide those resources. And then on the other side is women of color, we have to be willing to ask for what we want.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 28:27
Yeah! And I want to add to that to Rhea because I think this is something like with coaching, becoming so popular and such, like there’s new data that’s coming out about the effectiveness and what it creates an ROI, like return on investment, both in an organization and as individuals.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 28:46
I think as individuals, especially as communities of color if you feel that you’re in a space where a coach would help you, ask for it. There is no harm, regardless of if you’re an executive director, service manager, or whatever like I feel like there’s a huge opportunity where organizations are starting to realize we need to do better about supporting our team.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 29:09
We need to do better about supporting these individuals. The great resignation is a huge example of that. I was reading an article that was talking about how one of the top reasons that people left is 1, they didn’t feel respected. They felt disrespected.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 29:26
And 2, their work-life balance was like out of control. And so if we think about supporting people with tools and resources, including coaching, it provides a better environment for them to be more effective to create more of those things that they want in their life and in the organization.
RHEA WONG 29:41
Yeah, for sure. And I always just think about like, Serena Williams has a coach. I mean, she’s retired, but like she is the best in the world and she has a coach. We don’t send people out of the world without coaches.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 29:53
Yeah, but she didn’t get there without a coach. It started when she was very young. You don’t just need a coach when you’re at the top, or when you’re on a meteoric rise. You need a coach from the beginning. You need a coach to really step into that vision that you want to see for yourself in your organization.
RHEA WONG 30:12
Awesome! So we got some questions coming in. I’m going to actually start with Sheila. Hey, Sheila!
SHEILA WILKINSON 30:17
I think, you know, for me, my only w2 position is as an adjunct at a university. I teach, I mean, I have my own business and stuff. And so but I often encounter this with individuals who are like that I’m coaching or working with we’re concerned about the conversation of, oh, there’s no professional development budget for its leaders.
SHEILA WILKINSON30:40
And so how would you suggest that someone handled that conversation? I mean, I know how I would, but I’d love to hear it from your perspective, too.
RHEA WONG 30:49
It’s a great question, too.
SHEILA WILKINSON 30:50
Especially if they’re not making the budget, that’s usually when they’re at a level that’s high enough, but they’re not making the final budgetary decisions for their department.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 31:02
Yeah! This is something and Rhea, you can tap into this too because I know you have experience in talking about this. But this is something where I feel like you have to present a business case.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 31:12
Because people who were creating the budget want to know the impact that it’s going to create. And so this is a space where data becomes very valuable about what coaching creates for organizations as far as a return on their investment.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 31:27
I also think with companies and organizations looking more at wellness, like holistic, not just mental wellness, but like wellness of their employees. This is a place to be inserted as part of that wellness program, allocating part of this budget for people to have coaches available, or to have a personal coach that can help her to use more of that wellness and the work environment.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 31:51
And then lastly, one of the cases that I really love is that if you’re a high performer or someone who’s aspiring to be a high performer, understanding that high performers have coaches in order to to be at the optimal level.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 32:10
You are in a space where there’s the coach that needs to be there alongside you to be able to mirror to uncover blind spots to see what’s getting in your way. And so when you’re presenting this understanding that, hey, I’m a high performer or I aspire to be a high performer in this organization, these are the values that I’ve already added.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 32:32
And these are the things that I want to add and adding a coach to this will help me get to this place faster. And I think along with the return on investment creates a powerful case for, hey, this isn’t just like money spent in the budget. This is money spent that’s going to 5x or 10x, what you’re putting into it.
RHEA WONG 32:52
Yeah! I double-click on that because I often think boards of directors have a very short-term view of expenses. And so what I say is, when you think about expenses, you should make the case of, it’s either going to bring in more money, it’s either going to save time, or it’s going to increase operational efficiency.
RHEA WONG 33:12
So if you can make the case that a coach can do, hopefully, all three of those things, but certainly some component is things that make a very strong case. One thing that’s triggering me, as you’re talking, Glasa, and then we’ll get to Jessica. I know she has a question.
RHEA WONG 33:25
Different people out here in the streets calling themselves coaches. I think it’s a very trendy thing that everyone is like, I’m a coach. So how do we know that a coach is actually a coach? Isn’t it about certification? Like, I just feel like I see all these people out here being like, I’m a coach of whatever it’s like, are you?
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 33:44
Yeah! So this is a conversation that could be like a whole another episode itself. Here’s what I’ll say. I don’t want to talk badly about the coaching industry because I do feel there’s a very powerful transformation happening for people in this space.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 34:01
There’s also harm that’s being done. I feel from inexperienced coaches, or people just see an opportunity to make money. And so they’re, you know, transitioning or pivoting or doing a side hustle in those states.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 34:14
Personally, when I decided that I wanted to really step into bringing self-awareness to leaders, it became very important to me to understand how to do that powerfully. So I ended up going through a year-long coaching program.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 34:30
So one of the things that I’ll say is, if you were going into a doctor and you wanted them to help you be healthy with something, maybe you’re like, feeling something in your body, or you know, whatever, you would want them to be trained.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 34:46
Or, if you go to the gym, you’re going to want somebody who knows how to actually get you into the fitness space that you want to be in. And so in coaching, I think it’s important to look at trading. I’m not saying it’s necessary.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 34:58
There are coaches out there with tons of experience that have went through no certification, but it’s something to look at as a piece of the pie when you’re going to hire a coach. The other thing that I would look at is, what are the results that they’re getting their clients.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 35:13
What testimonials do they have? What kind of impact are they creating? What are people saying about them? I know, me and you have talked about here, there are so many people out here, saying that they’ll help you get here.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 35:26
Like, they’ll help you make $100,000. Or they’ll help you have like 5x months or whatever, and they like haven’t even done it themselves. So understanding what is their experience in that? And what is the results that they’re creating for their clients specifically.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 35:42
What testimonials do they have? The last thing that I’ll say is there is a ton of organizations that provide coaches with skills and training. And the one that is the largest in the US is called the ICF.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 35:57
It’s the International Coach Foundation, which I happen to be a member and certified through. And so you can go to some of these organizations to see if individuals are actually certified through that organization.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 36:10
Lastly, I want to say is, there’s a very distinct difference between coaching, consulting, and mentoring. And there’s a lot of people out here calling themselves coaches that are not actually coaches. They’re consultants or they’re mentors.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 36:25
So the difference is a mentor is going to share their experience. Maybe you’re going along a career path, and they’ve been where you’ve been. They’re going to kind of share with you the steps to take or what they did in order to get there.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 36:39
A consultant is going to be more in the space of strategy. So they’re going to help you understand when I was doing consulting with business owners, like where’s your business at? Like, what are the revenue streams that you have? How do we get you to increase that?
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 36:53
How do we increase your profitability? Okay, we’re gonna deploy XYZ strategy to get you there. And here’s what that requires. That’s consulting. And then there’s coaching. Coaching is where we don’t give you the answers.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 37:08
But we pull the answers out of you. So I’m not here to tell you what your purpose is, or where to go, or how to get that next job. But I’m here to help all the answers of like, what do I want in this life?
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 37:20
Why is getting this next job important to me? What are the skills that I’m gonna have to learn in order to get there? And so in the coaching space, it’s a really powerful space of like self-awareness, self-examining, understanding, I talked about the suitcase, understanding all of those factors that are in play that may be deterring you from the outcome that you want.
RHEA WONG 37:41
That’s such a good distinction. I’m so glad that you said that. Because I do think these sorts of things are conflated often. And so it’s yeah, good to have that distinction. Okay! I think we have time for one last question. Jessica, I see your question. Do you want to jump in here and ask?
JESSICA WALSH-FRAZIER 37:54
Yeah! I just wanted to, I think probably your last thoughts helped address it a bit. But I was trying to understand what the process was. I think just like a couple of months ago, someone asked me if they had a coach.
JESSICA WALSH-FRAZIER 38:03
And I was like, well, that seems like do you think something that Rhea said earlier in the conversation. Are you able to get access to a role now? But then what is the support to do well in that role, and yeah, and grow in that role? So I just wanted to know a little bit more about that.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 38:20
Yeah! Tell me more about what you mean.
JESSICA WALSH-FRAZIER 38:24
Like, I mean, where do you go? How do you know if someone is the right person for you? When do you know, I mean, I think we had to ask earlier, like, okay, you know, that, like, you’re kind of looking for certain things, that’s the time to do it.
JESSICA WALSH-FRAZIER 38:36
But I guess like, there’s like, how do I know what the best place to go is? And how do I know that that person is the best person to be the coach or whatever?
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 38:44
Gotcha! Okay! If you’re in a place where someone can refer a coach, I think that is the most powerful space because you have someone who’s already kind of co-signing or giving their personal testimony about their experience with them.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 38:59
If you are not in a space where that is possible, look to a broader network, if you have network, like reaching out to people or individuals that you know, to ask if anyone has had experience in coaching.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 39:14
And then the last thing I’ll say is, if you look online, I know there’s like a terrible. Okay! But if you look online at what it is that you’re trying to create, so maybe you’re a coach, or maybe you’re a person who it’s like, hey, I want to have a better handle on my finances.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 39:32
Look at like the top money coaches that are out there. Most coaches, too, will give you either a consult or maybe a first free session. So you can get a feel for how they are. You can understand. Every coach should have like a process that they work you through.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 39:49
So they should tell you, here’s exactly how we’re going to get you to where you want to go. And the last thing I will say is to trust your intuition. So if you go through that consult, or you go through that call, or maybe you’re even looking at them online and you just don’t get the right feel or the vibe from them, I would say that’s a no.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 40:10
There is a point of connection that has to happen in coaching. And if you’re feeling right off the bat that you can’t connect and be, like real with that person, or bring like the deepest, most vulnerable places of yourself into the coaching space, it’s going to be really hard for you to receive the most transformation.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 40:28
This is the space where you want to be able to be like 100, like, there’s no sugarcoating here, and you want that person to be 100 with you. You don’t want a coach that’s going to sugarcoat it. So go with your intuition. Go for the consult, or the free coaching call, and then go with your intuition on what it is and what you feel it is that they’re going to create.
RHEA WONG 40:52
You know, it’s just funny as you’re talking, because I have a couple of people I coach, and sometimes they get on the phone, they’re like, I’m scared about what you’re gonna say. And I’m like, are you scared? Or do you know what I’m going to say? Or like, do you know what you should have been doing?
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 41:05
Yeah! And it’s funny because when you have a coach for so long, it’s almost like you’ll hear them in your head like, well, what would my coach say in this situation? And they do. They’ll call like, as the client, you’ll start calling yourself out before your coach even does because, you know, like, you get in that modality of understanding what’s coming.
RHEA WONG 41:24
I have so many who I work with, where like, I literally hear your voice in my head. I’m like, I’m sorry, but also good.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 41:33
Yeah! it’s like your little cheerleader, like your truth bomb, like happening inside your head.
RHEA WONG 41:38
Yeah! Sometimes, I’m like your cheerleader instead of him. I’m like, mean, librarian. It just depends. It depends. It’s all in love, though. It is all in love. In the sense of like, Glasa, thank you so much. If folks want to get in touch with you, where can they go?
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 41:53
Yeah! So let me put my website in the chat. But you can head to my website, which is gotogii.com. That’s a lot shorter than my name and that has all my links. I’m on social media, I hang out on LinkedIn.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 42:08
So if you’d like to connect, if you’d like to talk about coaching, even if you’re not looking for a coach, but I just want to talk more about coaching and like what it takes to find a good coach, like, I’d be happy to have those conversations. So don’t hesitate to use me as a resource.
RHEA WONG 42:23
That is awesome. And we’ll make sure to put all your info in the show notes for folks who are listening on the pod. Glasa, thank you so much. And we actually have to get you back because I want to talk about, don’t talk about money because you know, to talk about money.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 42:35
One of my favorite topics.
RHEA WONG 42:36
Money, women of color, and all of the stuff that we have about money keep us from experiencing wealth. Anyway, you know, we’re about that life. Yeah! Alright, everyone. Thank you so much. Take care.
GLASA GOTTSCHALK 42:48
Thank you.
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