In this interview, I talk about Donor-Advised Funds or DAFs and crypto donations with Alexis Miller, who is the donor engagement and strategic partnerships lead at Endaoment.
Listen to this entire podcast episode if you want to know more about NFTs, DAOs, and a lot more interesting topics of cryptocurrencies in the nonprofit space. Alexis will help everyone understand these concepts related to crypto, how they work, and how you can help those who are interested in crypto to get involved in supporting what you do in the nonprofit community. On top of that, Alexis also shares her thoughts about the controversy of DAFs and payouts.
A lot more of this in this episode, so tune in!
To connect with Alexis: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexis-miller-880b2160/
To learn more about EnDAOment: https://endaoment.org/
QUOTES from Alexis “Crypto donors aren’t reading newsletters”
Episode Transcript
RHEA WONG 00:00
Welcome to Nonprofit Lowdown. I’m your host, Rhea Wong. Hey, podcast listeners! It’s Rhea Wong with you once again with Nonprofit Lowdown. Today, I’m super excited because we’re going to talk about a hot topic of DAFs and Crypto with Alexis Miller, who is the donor engagement and strategic partnerships lead at the Endaoment. Alexis, we have so many questions. So welcome to the show.
ALEXIS MILLER 00:22
Thanks, Rhea, for having me.
RHEA WONG 00:22
So before we jump into all the questions that we have, tell us a little bit about yourself and your journey.
ALEXIS MILLER 00:30
I oversee partnerships and donor engagement at Endaoment. And my journey has led me in a variety of different directions. But my background is in the nonprofit space. So as cliche as it is, I grew up always wanting to be in the helping profession.
ALEXIS MILLER 00:46
And throughout high school and college, I was really gearing my career toward being a social worker. I really was interested in being a school social worker, and one thing led to another I ended up getting my master’s in social work, but really focus on the macro aspects of social work, meaning nonprofit management and the administration of how nonprofits are run, how they can be run in a more efficient way to still make a large impact.
ALEXIS MILLER 01:14
So I started out my career working in the Jewish Federation system in development and fundraising. I was there for four years overseeing a lot of our professional groups. So I worked with our lawyers and our doctors and our professional women, and really just served as that entry point into the Jewish community, through events and fundraising opportunities.
ALEXIS MILLER 01:36
Through that opportunity, I really knew nothing about fundraising when I first started, but I met somebody who said, you’d be great at development. Like just try it out. So I did. And through my time in the Jewish community, I really learned about DAF. And it wasn’t something that was in my direct portfolio.
ALEXIS MILLER 01:55
But a lot of the donors I was working with had Donor-Advised Funds at the Jewish Federation or at other entities. And I really took it upon myself to learn more about the DAF space, which then led me to taking a role at the Baltimore community foundation overseeing our Donor-Advised Fund Program.
ALEXIS MILLER 02:14
I just found DAFs to be unhappy to like go into more detail about what DAFs are and their benefits, but I just found them to be a really interesting giving vehicle. And they were underutilized, in my opinion.
ALEXIS MILLER 02:25
So I moved to the Baltimore community foundation and was serving as a philanthropic advisor, helping people to strategize how to give away money. So instead of being on the development side, where I was raising the funds, I took a break from that and really just wanted to help people make an impact and think through the questions of, where do I want to give?
ALEXIS MILLER 02:45
And how can I leave a legacy and involve my kids? So through that, I was the token young person on the team. So they said, okay, you can work to engage the next generation. And what I soon realized was that the next generation, people in their 20s, and 30s, didn’t want to engage in philanthropy in the same way that their parents and their grandparents’ generation did.
ALEXIS MILLER 03:08
And through that, we didn’t really have like specific opportunities, per se at the Community Foundation. I was looking to really shift my career and be somewhere at a startup at a forward-thinking company.
ALEXIS MILLER 03:21
I had been to two legacy organizations, which were amazing and did incredible work. But I really wanted to try something new for myself. I knew nothing about crypto eight months ago and joined the Endaoment team as basically the middle person between nonprofits and donors. And that’s what led me here today.
RHEA WONG 03:38
Okay, Alexis, there’s so much to unpack. So before we get into crypto, because that’s a whole other thing. I want to talk about DAFs because I feel like that is it’s a black box. So for those of us who don’t know about DAFs, tell us a little bit about what our DAFs are and how do people use them to help nonprofits?
ALEXIS MILLER 03:56
Sure! So a Donor-Advised Fund, I think of it as a charitable checking account. So an individual or a family or group of people can open up a Donor-Advised Fund at either a financial institution, Schwab, Fidelity, or Morgan Stanley, most of your big financial institutions offer DAFs as well as Community Foundations and Jewish Federation’s Endaoment.
ALEXIS MILLER 04:20
And really, it’s a way to streamline your giving. So think of the donor who gives to, let’s say, 20 to 25 nonprofits a year. They are managing all of the receiving on their own. They’re getting 20 different receipts for nonprofits. They’re worrying about 20 different fiscal years and end-of-year deadlines.
ALEXIS MILLER 04:39
And a DAF is really a way where you get one receipt when you donate to your Donor-Advised Fund, and it allows you the flexibility to decide on what nonprofits you want to support. So there’s again, happy to go into like the heat and the controversy around DAFs and payouts, but really what they’re used for is a way to streamline one’s giving. It’s a great way to involve a spouse, kids, and your philanthropy as well.
ALEXIS MILLER 05:06
And it’s a great alternative to starting a private foundation, which will be really expensive. You have to have your own board of directors. You have a specific amount you need to pay out. With the DAF, it’s really just that charitable checking account.
ALEXIS MILLER 05:19
And there are some IRS rules about how to use the DAF and what you can use for and what you can’t use it for. But as a rule of thumb, I think of it as a much more flexible and cost-effective option, versus setting up a private foundation.
RHEA WONG 05:33
So let’s talk about DAF for a second. Because I think the number one thing I hear from nonprofit folks is a total, there’s not a lot of transparency. As far as how to access it, who has one, who doesn’t have one, and who do you talk to you?
RHEA WONG 05:46
Because often we will receive letters back that says Fidelity donated this money, and it’s like anonymous money. So can you talk a little bit about it, is there any way for a nonprofit to say, prospect or cultivate or be a bit more intentional versus having random checks show up?
ALEXIS MILLER 06:06
Yeah, I think it’s hard with some of the larger entities, right? You mentioned Schwab or Fidelity like they have a 1000-person team who may be managing this. My recommendation to nonprofits just being on the other side of things, is to work with your local community foundation.
ALEXIS MILLER 06:24
But if you are somebody, I’ll just use Baltimore as an example, since that’s where I worked. We had nonprofits in Baltimore, who were contacting us trying to get in front of our team to showcase the work that they were doing so that if a donor comes along, you can make that match.
ALEXIS MILLER 06:39
And Community Foundation also has grants programs. And there are other ways that each one differs. But there are other ways to get involved and get your nonprofit’s name out there. So I would say first and foremost, start with your local community foundation, or if you’re a national nonprofit, identify a few communities where you work and just reach out to their donor services team or their development team and just try to set up a meeting.
ALEXIS MILLER 07:04
I think that is a really great entry point and starting point if your organization is faith-based, as an example. I mentioned the Jewish Federation system, reach out to your Jewish Federation or Catholic Charities if they offer some sort of DAF, and just do your research.
ALEXIS MILLER 07:21
But I would say that starting local is always the best. You are much more likely to get in touch with someone versus emailing a Schwab or a Fidelity not saying it’s not possible. But I think that creating that one-on-one relationship with a donor officer could be really helpful to your nonprofit.
RHEA WONG 07:38
And so as a philanthropic advisor, correct me if I’m wrong, you’re the middle person between the nonprofits and the donors and really matching people up with their interests. Is that right?
ALEXIS MILLER 07:49
Yeah!
RHEA WONG 07:49
So were you constantly on the lookout for nonprofits? Or like, how were you able to get new nonprofits?
ALEXIS MILLER 08:00
Part of it was nonprofits reaching out to us. And just taking a meeting with them and learning more about them. And the majority of my role was really understanding what the donor is looking for.
ALEXIS MILLER 08:11
The donor might come to us and already know what nonprofits they’re supporting. And most likely, if somebody has a Donor-Advised Fund at a community foundation, or in a local community, they’re using it to support that local community, right?
ALEXIS MILLER 08:25
I mean, that is just the nature of having something in your community. You’re really focused on your fee from your Donor-Advised Fund. It’s actually going to support grant making in your local community. So I was on the donor side, trying to understand what their needs were.
ALEXIS MILLER 08:43
And then in the back of my mind, having one pagers from nonprofits and having meetings with nonprofits to really understand their mission. And then when a donor comes to you and says, hey, I really want to support the environment in California. You can really make that match and make a connection if they’re interested.
RHEA WONG 09:01
Perfect! Alright, one last question on DAFs before we jump into crypto, which everyone wants to hear about. Let’s talk about the controversy of DAFs and payouts. Can you give us a little sense of what the controversy is and your thoughts on it?
ALEXIS MILLER 09:12
Sure! So there are a lot of articles written about Donor-Advised Funds being a way to park money. So as I mentioned earlier, a donor gets the tax deduction when they donate into their Donor-Advised Fund, not when they’re making grants out to a benefiting nonprofit.
ALEXIS MILLER 09:30
And again, that’s an IRS regulation where you get the tax deduction to that DAF. But I would say it depends on the entity in terms of the amount that you have to pay out. So when I was at the Baltimore community foundation, we had a five-year inactive fund policy.
ALEXIS MILLER 09:46
So at least once every five years, you had to make a grant or you had to make another donation to your DAF. Now at Endaoment, we have a two-year active fund policy. So you have to be taking action at least once every two years.
ALEXIS MILLER 10:00
Another controversy that we at the Endaoment are really trying to change the narrative on is like happy to go into details about how our DAF functions and how it differentiates from other DAFs. But as a rule of thumb, most Donor-Advised Fund providers are taking a fee based on assets under management.
ALEXIS MILLER 10:19
So large institutions like Fidelity or Schwab, keep using them as examples. But they’re good examples because they have very large DAF there. And they’re taking a fee based on the assets that they’re managing. So the more money that’s in that DAF, the higher fee they get.
ALEXIS MILLER 10:38
So at Endaoment, what we do is we don’t take a fee based on assets under management. Instead, we take a one-and-a-half percent transaction fee. So we don’t care how much money is in the actual DAF. And actually, the way that our fee structure works, is it’s 0.5% when it comes into the Donor-Advised Fund, and it’s 1% when it goes out to the benefiting nonprofit.
ALEXIS MILLER 11:02
So we’re financially incentivizing ourselves by taking a larger fee when money is flowing out of our bank account and into the hands of a nonprofit. And that was really important to our CEO, Rob Heger, when he started Endaoment that we changed the narrative of traditional philanthropy and traditional Donor-Advised Funds, making these accessible.
ALEXIS MILLER 11:21
We don’t have a minimum donation size. So somebody could open up a DAF with $500 versus some entities with a $10,000, minimum, and $100,000 minimum. And with us, there’s no minimum. Our fee structure differs from traditional DAFs. And we’re really weighted on the throughput making sure that money is getting into the hands of nonprofits, which is what a DAF is supposed to do.
RHEA WONG 11:44
Okay! We’re jumping in here. So for those who are new to crypto, let’s go with the basis. First of all, what is the DAO? Because those who know about crypto, DAO was a thing and the name of your company is a very clever Endaoment. But what is the DAO for those of us who don’t know?
ALEXIS MILLER 12:02
Sure! So a DAO stands for Decentralized Autonomous Organization. And basically, the way that I think about it, again, me being someone who comes from the nonprofit world, I always think in nonprofit terms. So a traditional nonprofit is run very top-down, right?
ALEXIS MILLER 12:18
You have your CEO or your executive director, then you have your C-suite, then you have your directors, etc. It’s a triangle. Basically, the idea with a DAO is that the governance is not top-down, it’s democratic.
ALEXIS MILLER 12:32
So people are making decisions together. Your CEO is not dictating every decision that is occurring for the organization or for the company. It’s a democratic process. That could look like voting.
ALEXIS MILLER 12:46
That could look like using a token-powered governance structure. Our CEO, we just did a nonprofit call last week to talk about the current state of crypto philanthropy and all the craziness going on. And he described DAOs, as similar to giving circles which I thought was an amazing comparison because, in a giving circle, everybody is giving the same amount everyone’s pulling together $100.
ALEXIS MILLER 13:12
And collectively, they’re deciding on where the money goes. So I think of a DAO as the same concept. And actually, at an Endaoment, we have some DAOs who set up philanthropic funds and use their DAo to vote on what nonprofits they’re supporting. So it’s this DAO concept and it says giving circle concepts combined and bonds.
RHEA WONG 13:33
Okay! So let’s talk a little bit about the Endaoment. So from my understanding, and please correct me if I’m wrong, is you have donors who are putting crypto, so for those who are new to crypto, that means Bitcoin, Ethereum, and then like all the other altcoins out there into a fund. And then how does the match process works between the crypto in and then the donations out?
ALEXIS MILLER 14:00
Sure! So the bread and butter of what we do is our Donor-Advised Fund, which is why we kept talking about DAFs. We also do a direct donations. So somebody can give us one bitcoin as an example, not open up a Donor-Advised Fund with us and just give it to any nonprofit. And the process is we ingest the crypto, we take 1000 different types of cryptocurrencies.
ALEXIS MILLER 14:23
So you mentioned a few, but really anything that there’s a liquid market for, we take. We convert it into what’s called a stablecoin, a US dollar coin, and it’s pegged to the dollar. So we’re not holding it as Bitcoin or Ethereum, etc, because there are a lot of market fluctuations associated with that, as I’m sure you’ve all seen.
ALEXIS MILLER 14:44
And just like the stock market, we’re not holding Apple shares as an example. We’re converting it into a cryptocurrency that’s pegged to the US dollar, and then it’s being granted out to a nonprofit as US dollars. So we’re actually doing the work of converting it from crypto into US dollars and then sending it directly to a nonprofit’s bank account.
RHEA WONG 15:06
And how do the nonprofits receive funds? Like how do people know about them? Can you talk us through this process? It’s very similar to what you discuss with DAFs. Because I also know having visited the site you’ve basically registered all of the nonprofits in the country on your platform.
ALEXIS MILLER 15:24
Yeah, so any nonprofit that’s in good standing is technically already on the Endaoment, we integrate with Guidestar data. So we’re pulling information from a nonprofit’s 990, their mission statement, and their logo, and they’re already listed on our site.
ALEXIS MILLER 15:41
But somebody has to actually, it’s called claiming their organization by providing us that bank account information, so we know where to send the money to. So we say that any nonprofit can receive crypto through an Endaoment, which is true, but we have to talk to somebody at that nonprofit and get them signed up in order to get money out the door.
ALEXIS MILLER 16:01
And there’s a little bit of the wild wild west, but we’re not just sending money anywhere. Like we have to contact the nonprofit. And the flow is really, somebody connects their crypto wallet to our platform. They make a donation, which triggers an email to the nonprofit saying, hey, somebody’s trying to make a donation, it’ll have any donor information that the donor chooses to pass along.
ALEXIS MILLER 16:26
It’ll have the amount. If there’s a grant purpose, or any special instructions, like they want it to support X program at your organization, that will all be in an email. And we either get them claimed, so get them on board or get their bank info. Or, if they’re already on board with us, we just send that grant to the nonprofit within 24 to 48 hours.
RHEA WONG 16:49
So for a nonprofit to receive money from the Endaoment, do they have to have an existing relationship with the donor? Or can the platform be used as a discovery?
ALEXIS MILLER 17:03
Both! Good question. And we have some donors who know exactly where they want to support. They’re supporting organizations that let’s say they give to annually. We also have donors who you have to remember a lot of people in the crypto space have made a lot of money in a very short amount of time.
ALEXIS MILLER 17:21
And a lot of the donors we work with have never been philanthropic previously. Or they’ll say we’ve never been able to give more than $500 to a nonprofit. And now we’re giving $50,000 or $500,000, if we’re lucky.
ALEXIS MILLER 17:33
So some of it is you’re completely new. And they might do research on their own. They might have a friend who’s involved in a nonprofit, and they decide to make a grant. And on average, our donor base skews younger under the age of 45.
ALEXIS MILLER 17:48
And people are not engaging with nonprofits in the same way that their parent’s generation did. So we have donors who make large donations without ever contacting the nonprofit, without having a development professional, telling you what’s going on at the organization or giving you a report, right?
ALEXIS MILLER 18:05
Something that previous generations of philanthropists are really into is like reporting and impact reports and having the nonprofit like put together. I’m sure those of you who work in nonprofits, you’ve probably put together some sort of like 5 to 10-page document outlining how you’re using the money.
ALEXIS MILLER 18:21
And our donors don’t ask for that for the most part. And I think just the way that this next generation is thinking about philanthropy is really a trust-based approach. We’re going to give you $10,000. We’re going to trust that you’re using that to its fullest capacity at the organization. We don’t need to see a report on exactly how you use every step. And that’s just a, I think, a little bit of a generational and mindset shift compared to previous generations.
RHEA WONG 18:47
Yeah, that’s such an interesting point. Let’s go there. Because I think last week we had Adam Michael Royston who does West Coast fundraising. And what we’re learning is that the traditional donor journey of prospecting, cultivation, solicitation, and stewardship is out the window.
RHEA WONG 19:02
So he was talking about how he’s able to turn over a major gift in zero to three months, which is really different than the traditional sort of six to nine months. So talk to me a little bit about other things that you’ve noticed about crypto donors in particular, versus our traditional model of donor.
ALEXIS MILLER 19:18
Yeah! I am going to put in the chat actually, if that’s helpful, our 2021 impact report. So folks on the call can get a sense of who our donor base is. We have some statistics from 2021 that was really helpful.
ALEXIS MILLER 19:35
Skewing younger, our donor tends to be majority male, but we have a lot of females. And we also have a lot of NFT artists, which is something happy to share nonfungible tokens. It’s basically like digital art which some people it was very hard for me to wrap my mind around what it is, but we have a lot of artists who work with us who donate a portion of their NFT sales to an Endaoment or to a nonprofit through an Endaoment.
ALEXIS MILLER 20:05
And, again, that demographic, they’re using their community to decide on what nonprofits to support for the most part. So I would say, crypto donors, tend to be younger. They tend to be a little bit more hands off with the nonprofit just trusting that they’re going to do what they say they’re doing, like support their mission, and they’re using the funds in the wisest way possible.
ALEXIS MILLER 20:28
And crypto donors are, for the most part, pretty tech savvy. So our entire platform, you could go from start to finish setting up a DAF, funding the DAF, and making a grant without ever having to talk to a DAF person. It’s set up that way so that people can just do it on their own time.
ALEXIS MILLER 20:48
At the Community Foundation, we had to have an onboarding conversation with a donor. We sent them an emailed PDF to sign off on. And then we went back and forth, and it was just a longer process. Whereas from start to finish, a donor can go to our site, and two minutes later can make a donation to the nonprofit of their choice. And then within 24 to 48 hours, we’re getting the money into the hands of the nonprofit.
RHEA WONG 21:14
Okay, so I’m going to ask the elephant-in-the-room question. So right now it is December 15 2022. And Sam Bankman-Fried has been arrested in the Bahamas. We’ve seen the implosion of other platforms, crypto.com FTX, etc. How has it impacted the donor crypto base?
ALEXIS MILLER 21:33
Yeah! It’s a good question. It’s definitely the elephant in the room. As I mentioned earlier, we did a nonprofit talk last week just to share with our nonprofits what’s going on and answer any questions that they had. And what I’ll say is, markets fluctuate, right?
ALEXIS MILLER 21:51
We see the stock market going up and down. Cryptos going up and down. It’s the world that we live in. Crypto is a little bit riskier than the stock market. Sure! But what we’re seeing, I think everything that happened with Sam Bankman-Fried, he was somebody who really embraced philanthropy. He made multi-million dollar pledges to nonprofits.
ALEXIS MILLER 22:14
And he was somebody who appeared to be charitably minded. And one thing that we’re talking a lot about internally is, pledges are great. But for this type of reason, money in the door is what really matters, right? You have to be able to support these nonprofits imminently to support whatever their needs are.
ALEXIS MILLER 22:36
Currently, it’s great to plan multi-year commitments for nonprofits are great, because that’s a pledge, but it’s also money in the door at this moment. And I think that is something that has come out from all of this is the inability like pledges or again, pledges are great for nonprofits.
ALEXIS MILLER 22:55
But when something like this occurs, all of these nonprofits, we’re counting on these multiple millions of dollars to hit their bank account next year or in 2024. And it’s really hard for these nonprofits now to shift and figure out a fundraising strategy moving forward. Another point that I’ll just say, is to kind of talk about what happened with FTX and compare it with an Endaoment.
ALEXIS MILLER 23:19
FTX was a centralized exchange. So similar to a bank, let’s just say where somebody can put in US dollars and get out crypto, or somebody can put in crypto Ethereum and get out Dogecoin. Right? They can switch different cryptocurrencies in FTX. And it’s centralized. It operates in a similar way to a bank. In an Endaoment, everything that we do is decentralized. So the opposite of that. And that is a value of this democratic process.
ALEXIS MILLER 23:49
This decentralization is something that’s really important in the crypto space and at Endaoment, we are only working with decentralized protocols for the most part. And we have a multi-step process in order for grants to be paid out. Multiple people at our organization have to basically sign off on a grant going on.
ALEXIS MILLER 24:08
And there’s a whole checks and balances system that we have at Endaoment, and that other protocols that are decentralized. We use it because something like this is centralized. And they basically take control of your funds, right? So it’s like a bank. You give them your money, and they convert it.
ALEXIS MILLER 24:29
And they’re supposed to have that in like reserves if somebody needs to take money out. But with decentralization and decentralized protocols, you’re holding on to your money still, and I think this idea of self-custody and being the owner of your own money is something that’s really valued in the crypto space. And this was one of the big reasons that FTX collapsed. It was due to its centralization, in my opinion.
RHEA WONG 24:55
That’s such an interesting point and as someone who holds a little bit of crypto myself, I know there’s a lot of talk about getting it off the platform in your own cold wallet. Let’s talk about the strategy of the crypto donor because I think you’re right.
RHEA WONG 25:07
They tend to be younger, they tend to be tech-savvy, and they tend to be a little bit more interested in and be so really different than how we think about traditional philanthropists and like the, you know, name on the library. The other thing is people who hold crypto really love crypto like it’s really like a culty thing. So can you walk us through any organizations that you’ve had that have been really successful in attracting crypto donors?
ALEXIS MILLER 25:34
Great question. Yes! So we work with some incredible, nonprofit partners who really run the gamut. And I’ll just point out here that Endaoment is free for nonprofits to get on board with us.
ALEXIS MILLER 24:47
So there are other crypto donation providers who might be charging nonprofits. We are completely free. And we really look at our nonprofits as partners, not as clients. So we might be involved in their fundraising strategy, or they might be running an idea by us and they’re not a paid customer and the same.
ALEXIS MILLER 26:04
So in terms of some of our nonprofit partners, Outright International is an amazing organization. They have Katie on their team. She’s incredible. And she is very involved in the crypto space. She’s always on Twitter.
ALEXIS MILLER 26:18
She’s joining Twitter spaces, which for those of you who don’t know, they’re basically like audio Zooms to a certain extent. They live on Twitter, and a lot of people in the crypto space participate in Twitter spaces. We host them at times. And it’s a really great way to connect with people in this crazy world of crypto.
ALEXIS MILLER 26:38
So Outright International kaboom is another nonprofit. They work on playspace equity. And they have partnered with NFT artists before for fundraisers. And they are doing a really great job in this space. There are other organizations.
ALEXIS MILLER 26:53
There’s a nonprofit called Watze that deals with healthcare and low-income areas. I think it’s really important. And again, for folks in the nonprofit sector, you don’t need to have someone who knows everything about crypto.
ALEXIS MILLER 27:07
You need somebody who is crypto curious, somebody who is interested and jumping in and learning and whether that’s spending an hour of your week on Twitter and looking up different crypto protocols or NFT projects that you can reach out to or just connecting with others people who are like you, who work in the nonprofit space, but are also crypto curious.
ALEXIS MILLER 27:31
I think this is really important. I think sometimes I can speak for myself. I mentioned I knew nothing about crypto when I started at Endaoment eight months ago. And sometimes you just have to jump in and ask questions and use social media and use resources. There are so many articles out there, and there are forums to connect with other people
ALEXIS MILLER 27:53
So I think some of it is just jumping in. I’m happy to speak to any nonprofit who like doesn’t know where to start and can send resources. But I think that the nonprofits that I’ve seen who are the most successful at crypto fundraising are those who have somebody on their team who is just jumping into the space.
RHEA WONG 28:12
So what I’m hearing is that you have to be specific about fishing, where they’re like going to the ponds where there are fish, which is to say the spaces where crypto people hang out, being on Twitter, and other platforms and actually engaging pretty regularly.
ALEXIS MILLER 28:26
Yeah, for sure! We use discord. I don’t know if anyone’s familiar with it. But it’s basically like Slack for the gaming crypto techie space. And we have over 1000 people in our Discord. And we have a place for nonprofits to post like a one-pager or an upcoming event and most of our donors are in discord.
ALEXIS MILLER 28:50
So if you want to get something to our donors, or share some information about your nonprofit, we always tell people like pop in our Discord. Post something and engage with people. I think a lot of it is we don’t want a nonprofit to do something that they’re not comfortable with.
ALEXIS MILLER 29:06
And at the same time, crypto donors aren’t reading a newsletter. Like we don’t even have a newsletter and Endaoment. We’re giving updates on social media, and we’re really trying to meet our donors where they are.
ALEXIS MILLER 29:17
And I think it’s important for nonprofits to kind of be innovative and forward thinking and you meet your other donors where they are. You host events in the local community so that people don’t have to drive for 45 minutes. Think of this as just meeting donors where they are, which just happens to be in a digital setting.
RHEA WONG 29:36
That is such a great point. I think folks have questions coming up. So one last question for me. Can we talk about NFTs for a second? I’m very honest with you. I have a hard time wrapping my head around NFTs. I’ve been given the technical explanation.
RHEA WONG 29:53
But it just doesn’t make sense to me, especially when we were getting say around last year when these pieces of artwork going for? What it people who broke records that, I forgot it was $58 million, or something I forget, anyway, the point. is, for the newbies out there, what is an NFT? And how can nonprofits use it on behalf of fundraising or raise awareness or what? How might we use an NFT?
ALEXIS MILLER 30:22
Yes! Also posting another shout-out to our team, we put together a crypto 101 dictionary, so it is like a glossary of all of these terms that we’ve been using. NFT, blockchain, and cryptocurrency, so I just posted in the chat. Feel free to check it out.
ALEXIS MILLER 30:36
I think so much of the crypto space I learned is terminology. And once you understand the terminology, then you can move forward. But sometimes it’s just getting to that base level knowledge of like what is an NFT.
ALEXIS MILLER 30:49
So an NFT stands for non-fungible token. And it’s basically a piece of digital art. And one of the areas of interest with NFTs is that there are a limited number of them, right? Someone just told me the other day, like an Hermès bag, okay? I’m just using this analogy here. Right? I had no idea.
ALEXIS MILLER 31:12
But with Hermès. apparently, with the Birkin bags, there’s a limited number, right? So there might be 1000 and DC or just using this as an example or with an artist maybe Monet made 1000 of one painting, right?
ALEXIS MILLER 31:27
Part of it is that exclusivity, so there’s not an unlimited number of NFTs and artists might put out 100 different variations of their project and only 100 People can buy it. Then those 100 people can either hold on to their NFT.
ALEXIS MILLER 31:45
What they use it for, I don’t know, right? Some people actually display digital art like a… they have these like digital picture frames that you can use. Some people just hold it on their account. Other people sell it, right? So there’s a secondary market to NFTs as well. So let’s say I purchase art from this artist.
ALEXIS MILLER 32:04
And Rhea, you really liked it and you really wanted it, you can basically buy it from me. And that’s where a lot of people make money on this because it’s all ambiguous, right? Like, whatever you’re willing to pay for it, you name your price, and you can purchase it from me. So I think it’s definitely a niche.
ALEXIS MILLER 32:26
But the way that we work with NFT artists is people will actually code into what’s called the smart contract. People can like code into the actual art, if you will, we want 20% of proceeds to go to Planned Parenthood as an example. And programmatically that happens. So programmatically, 20% of the proceeds of that NFT project go to Planned Parenthood through an Endaoment.
ALEXIS MILLER 32:52
And people are using NFTs for good and a lot of NFT projects are actually doing that where they’re coding in a percentage of proceeds to support a nonprofit of their choice. We also work with NFT artists, If an NFT artist wants to donate an NFT to us, we auction it off, and then we get the proceeds and give it to a nonprofit.
RHEA WONG 33:14
Oh, that’s so interesting. All right! I don’t want to go too far down this rabbit hole because we could talk about this forever. But I want to go back to one thing that you said before we open it up for questions from the audience. You talked about the fact that a lot of folks, younger folks have made a lot of money in a very short amount of time.
RHEA WONG 33:33
And I’m curious if you’ve done any psychographic profiling on donors because I know that first-generation wealth graders tend to have a really different mindset and a different orientation to wealth than people who’ve been sort of generationally wealthy.
ALEXIS MILLER 33:46
Yeah! It’s a good question. We haven’t done any sort of analysis. We really try to not, I don’t want to say we don’t try to survey our donors. We do. We try to get insights. But people are not filling out the information in the same way that people were 10 years ago, but we do surveys.
ALEXIS MILLER 34:07
And I will just say, anecdotally, we have a variety of different types of donors. We have donors who made money in a really short amount of time and now are living a very minimal lifestyle like they were previously.
ALEXIS MILLER 34:21
And then we have other donors on the other side of the coin who is like living a more lavish lifestyle than they were previously. And you also see this at, like crypto conferences and just like being in this space, right?
ALEXIS MILLER 34:34
There are people who are incredibly humble and not showy. And then there are people on the other end of the spectrum, and I would say that in the non-crypto real world, too, right? There’s people who are flashy with their wealth and people who are much more humble. And I think like, there’s just a lot of different kinds of people.
ALEXIS MILLER 34:55
So I would say the same thing with crypto donors. We don’t have any statistics on it. But I really do think, again, this is, anecdotally, there’s no data to back up the conversations that I have with donors. People really just want to get back. They feel so fortunate that they’ve made this money, and they really want to give back to their local community.
ALEXIS MILLER 35:14
And we hear that time and time again. People will say like, I had no idea that my NFT was going to be worth millions of dollars. And they were just doing this as a side project, right? That this happens all the time when somebody just created something because they were curious about the space or a friend taught them. And people really like the art and they are now worth millions.
ALEXIS MILLER 35:40
And it’s just a crazy world. I will also say that a lot of our donors are people who have been in this space for a while. So people who got involved in 2015, 2016, and 2017, for the most part, are those folks who have appreciated crypto assets, and as we know, the markets are going up and down.
ALEXIS MILLER 36:00
So somebody who got into the space four months ago, they’re welcome to donate to the Endaoment, they probably don’t have appreciated crypto assets in the same way, as somebody who has been in the space for four years, for example.
RHEA WONG 36:14
Right! And in the crypto space for years is basically a millennium.
ALEXIS MILLER 36:18
Yeah! And things change, like technology changes, things are changing rapidly. Things are changing every day. And I think not to toot our own horn, but I will like projects like an Endaoment to be here to stay. We’ve seen companies that have opened up and closed.
ALEXIS MILLER 36:35
And really I think what’s going to be left in the crypto space in the next year, the next two years are these social good projects and these projects that are giving back and these projects that are led by incredible individuals.
ALEXIS MILLER 36:50
And I don’t think that crypto is going anywhere. And companies might open and close but the ones who are still in it and are still building and creating new technology and new ways of doing things are the ones that are going to be around.
RHEA WONG 37:03
How do you think stronger government regulation might change crypto? In particular, it might change the crypto donation space because I think it is the Wild West. It’s not really regulated. I know a lot of crypto enthusiasts are actually looking forward to more government regulation as a legitimizing seal of approval if you will. So what are your thoughts on that?
ALEXIS MILLER 37:26
Yeah! I mean, again, speaking personally, I agree. I think it’s good to not be in the wild wild west. Right? I think that it’s good to have some regulation. And I think the most important part is making sure that the people who are putting together regulations are people who understand the crypto space.
ALEXIS MILLER 37:45
I think a lot of people make assumptions. And it’s really important for people to be educated, but I 100% agree there needs to be some sort of regulations because people are losing. Things are happening. And there are a lot of privacy and security-related issues with the crypto space.
ALEXIS MILLER 38:04
So I’m all for increased regulations in terms of a charitable crypto donation component. Right now, I always say like, I’m not a CPA, and this is not financial advice, but right now, crypto is taxed the same way a stock is, so if somebody gives appreciated crypto assets, similar to appreciated stock, you can mitigate your capital gains taxes and get a tax deduction.
ALEXIS MILLER 38:29
So it’s actually tax advantageous for somebody to donate appreciated crypto, similar to appreciated stock versus a check or credit card. They can mitigate their 22% capital gains taxes or whatever the percentage is for that person.
ALEXIS MILLER 38:45
So I’m all for it. I would hope that they don’t change the benefits of donating crypto. And we’re at this interesting intersection because there are DAF regulations and DAF policy, and then there are crypto regulations and crypto policy.
ALEXIS MILLER 39:04
And while we’re a 501(c)(3), there’s only so much that we can do. We’re not a c4 organization. We are here for regulations and policy that makes good sense for Endaoment and for the future of DAFs and philanthropy and cryptocurrency and donating crypto.
RHEA WONG 39:24
It’s a good answer. Alexis. Okay, I have a question coming in from Carlos, who seems to be very familiar with…
CARLOS 39:29
Thanks, Alexis! Great to be here. Hi! So actually, one of the things I wanted to talk about, and I don’t think we’ve had a chance to chat about this, and you mentioned giving circles during what you were saying and I’ve been very curious because I see the overlap between giving circles and the idea of DAFs and crypto DAFs. Have you worked with giving circles and how would a giving circle get involved in crypto DAFs? And would that be a good marriage in your opinion?
ALEXIS MILLER 39:57
Yeah! It’s a good question. So we haven’t specifically worked with like a traditional giving circle. But we have worked with folks who, let’s say have a group of friends who have crypto and they all want to pull it together and donate. We have something called community funds on the Endaoment, which is basically like public donor-advised funds.
ALEXIS MILLER 40:19
So, again, I keep mentioning NFT artists, but like an NFT artist might open a community fund, they might look to their community to donate to it as well. So I could see our community funds being a really great option for giving circles, I will say, I’m not familiar with many crypto-giving circles, if they exist if somebody on this call is listening and knows of a crypto-giving circle, please send them our way.
ALEXIS MILLER 40:45
We can help facilitate that. We’re really for the like, crypto-donated donor. So a giving circle that is using traditional Fiat US Dollars probably isn’t the best fit for Endaoment yet, happy to, I love the concept of giving circles.
ALEXIS MILLER 41:00
It’s something that I care a lot about, and this whole democratization of philanthropy and the power of the collective and showing that if everybody gave $100, I think this model of you don’t have to be a millionaire or a billionaire to make an impact and to make a difference. And I think the more we can showcase some of these like smaller donations, the power of the collective really adds up. And I think just highlighting that is really important.
RHEA WONG 41:31
So Alexis, last question here. If I’m listening, I’m like, okay, I don’t know about crypto. I don’t know about DAOs and all that. But I’m crypto-curious. Where can I begin? Because it can be very overwhelming, especially when you throw in all of the acronyms. Think about the different platforms. There’s Reddit, there’s Twitter, and there’s discord.? mean, where do I start?
ALEXIS MILLER 41:55
There’s a lot. I would say start with whatever you’re curious about, right? This world of crypto is large and overwhelming, right? There’s cryptocurrency as a digital currency. There’s NFTs. There’s blockchain technology, which is basically the tech that underpins all of this.
ALEXIS MILLER 42:13
There are DAOs and governance. There’s a lot going on in this space. I would say find one, again, my personal advice, this is what I did when I started in this space, like, find one thing that you’re interested in, right? Start small because it is very overwhelming.
ALEXIS MILLER 42:30
So if you’re really interested in NFTs, great! Start reading about it, Google things, or look on Twitter. There are actual NFT platforms if you want to see what an NF T looks like, right? OpenSea is one of the largest NFT marketplaces where people will post their NFTs.
ALEXIS MILLER 42:47
If you want to see what they look like and like, see different artists, they have sections on their website of like upcoming men switch or upcoming projects. Start diving in. And I think it’s hard because there’s a lot of noise out there. And sometimes like you don’t know what is legit and what’s not. There I started reading articles.
ALEXIS MILLER 43:07
There’s coin telegraph as an example or coin desk like there are these platforms that exist, where there are articles written even like I was just reading an article in Forbes the other day about crypto.
ALEXIS MILLER 43:19
Some of these large entities are writing about crypto, there’s a really interesting Wall Street Journal article. I’m happy to share it in the chat if it’s helpful, talking about the centralization of FTX which I was alluding to earlier.
ALEXIS MILLER
So I would just say start reading articles, go on social media, and find something, specifically in the crypto space that interests you and just tried to do a lot of research and learn about that.
ALEXIS MILLER 43:44
And then one thing leads to another they call it the crypto rabbit hole where it’s like one thing leads to another thing, which leads to another thing, and then you’re on Twitter for five hours, and like your day is gone. But I think that is a helpful mindset. And you just have to start somewhere and one thing will lead to another for sure.
RHEA WONG 44:01
That sounds great. And then just one takeaway that I want everyone listening to this to hear go claim your nonprofit on the Endaoment. There’s no reason not to. So that’s one easy step that you can take. So we’ll make sure to put all of the information in the show notes, Endaoment, and all of the resources you’ve shared with us. Thank you so much. And is it okay for folks to connect with you via LinkedIn to ask questions?
ALEXIS MILLER 44:23
For sure, connect with me on LinkedIn. My email is alexis@endaoment.org. So feel free to reach out Yeah, LinkedIn, email, or go to our website: endaoment.org. And we are happy to talk to any nonprofits who, again, you got crypto curious, get claims with us.
ALEXIS MILLER 44:45
It’s completely free. You give us your bank account information. And once a nonprofit is on board with us, we send you a donate button to put on your website. We send you marketing materials to spread the word to your donor base.
ALEXIS MILLER 44:56
It’s something we didn’t really touch on earlier but we find that nonprofits start spreading the word to their existing donor base. They have people who are coming out of the woodwork, like, oh, I have crypto.
ALEXIS MILLER 45:06
I never thought to donate crypto or I didn’t know we were set up to receive crypto donations. So we’re happy to help with any language to spread the word to your donor base. But we find that really starting within your own donor base, you’ll likely see people who are excited about this.
RHEA WONG 45:24
Yeah, for sure. And actually, we had Pat Duffy on a little while ago, his point was people who are in crypto are really into crypto. So if you start coming crypto that really into crypto, so if you have a strategy, even if it’s like you’re putting out a series of tweets or communications that are directed at crypto donors, like people who are into it are super into it.
ALEXIS MILLER 45:48
Well, that is very true.
RHEA WONG 45:50
Alexis, thank you so much. This has been super informative. I appreciate your time. I know folks found this very informative. So go forth and get into it. I love crypto curious. Get crypto curious everyone.
ALEXIS MILLER 46:03
Thank you.
RHEA WONG 46:04
Take care.
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