When the ED/DoD relationship works it can be a magical thing and set everyone up for success. When it doesn’t…well, it just sucks. What makes the partnership work?
Join me, DeNora Getachew and Jen Moore as we explore what a professional marriage between a CEO and VP of Development looks like. What was the process DeNora went through? How did she make the org appealing to good candidates? What due diligence did Jen do? What did they do on the front end to make it work? Most importantly, who’s the hunter and who’s the farmer?
Episode Transcript
Rhea Wong 0:02
Hey, podcast listeners it’s Rhea Wong with you once again with Nonprofit Lowdown.
Rhea Wong 0:06
I am so psyched because today we’re talking about how to make the ED/CEO and Director of Development/VP of Development Relationship Work, and for those of you who are out there, you know, finding a good development person is, I don’t know, it’s like a, like a needle in a haystack. Everyone wants one it’s impossible to find one, but DeNora, like many things did the impossible, the amazing she found Jen and they’re like peas and carrots, peanut butter and jelly. They are making it work. This is the work relationship of dreams, and we’re going to figure out how she did it. So my guess today my dear friend DeNora Getachew.
DeNora Getachew 0:50
DeNora Getawchew. Ge-ta-chow
Rhea Wong 0:54
My dear friend DeNora Getachew will handle that in post, my dear friend DeNora Getachew, CEO of ‘Do Something’ and Jen Moore, VP of Development of Do Something. I have been trying to get DeNora on my podcast for years. Currently, I don’t know how to say your last name but I’ve been trying to get her on for years and finally, she is here. So welcome to both of you.
DeNora Getachew 1:15
Thanks for having us.
Jen Moore 1:17
Yeah, I’m excited to be here.
Rhea Wong 1:19
I’m excited to have you. All right, let’s just- before we jump into the dirty details, because I know we all want that DeNora, Jen? Could you just tell us a little bit about your Nonprofit journey and maybe a little bit about do something for folks who are not familiar. DeNora? Let’s start with you.
DeNora Getachew 1:36
I was like who’s going first? It’s like a game of double dutch. Well, so excited to be here with you, and thanks. I don’t know if it’s been years you’ve been trying to get me on. But I will say and it’s kind of a funny story into like how Jen and I are here together. Like, I was like, “Jen, I think you should be on Rhea’s podcast”, and she’s like, boomerang, I think we should both be on together. And she like had this great idea. So then you bet. And here we are. So I’m grateful for the opportunity to be with your listeners today to talk about the relationship.
DeNora Getachew 2:00
So I’m DeNora Getachew, CEO of dosomething.org. I’ve been with dosomething for the last year and almost a year and a half. I’ve come to this work as an attorney, as a mother of three, and as an advocate for a democracy that’s accessible, inclusive and representative with young people at the center. Came to this Nonprofit journey, lighting my own civic sport and actually as a young pregnant teen really thinking about how to find my civic boys, had to advocate for myself and educational opportunity at a moment when I didn’t even know what democracy meant, what it meant to contact elected officials or to to be appropriately represented, and it’s been a journey since then, which has landed me here to dosomething, really thinking about our important and vital mission of fueling young people to change the world. And so I’m so excited to be here with you today and to hopefully, throughout our conversation really explain how to make this relationship between the CEO and the VP of development, magical.
Rhea Wong 2:54
Two things. Number one, your work is more important, more so than ever given our climate, shall we say both actual literal climate and political climate. Also for those of you who are not seeing DeNora, she is looking gorgeous, having just gotten back from a great vacation, she has had post vacation glow, and I’m a little jealous, so glow on friend.
DeNora Getachew 3:19
I know it’s hard not to not disrupt the glow, even when you’re like jetlag, and waking up in the middle of the night for no good reason.
Rhea Wong 3:26
glow up friend. Alright, Jen, over to you.
Jen Moore 3:30
Great. So I started to dosomething in January of this year, but previously, I’ve been in fundraising for about 15 years. I think like most people, you always hear the story. Well, I kind of fell into fundraising and that story is the same for me. I moved to New York City as a professional dancer and from there, I started working in the office of the Dance Notation Bureau doing some work there. Then little by little I started doing more work and more work and then all of a sudden, I found myself as a development intern that led to full time development jobs working at dance to Amsterdam and career transition for dancers. Then I spent about seven and a half years working at young audiences New York doing arts education for the city.
Jen Moore 4:07
Most recently, I was at the sigma Foundation for Financial Education doing financial literacy work. So we were serving 600,000 kids across the country, giving them important investment, knowledge. And then a little while into that journey, I decided it was time to you know, make a change. And so I started looking around, and really what truly led me to do something is something that’s been really important to me in my life as well in my career is I think young people are often underestimated and what they can do, whether it’s in the complex topics they can understand or even what they can achieve. And so I was really excited and really passionate about the mission of dosomething. And so, this has led me to now be partnering up with DeNora to be fundraising for dosomething.
Rhea Wong 4:51
Love it, and you know, my heart’s with the accelerator and fundraisers out there in the world. That’s why I have my accelerator people. If you’re an accelerator, come to me, You are my people. All right, DeNora , let’s talk about this, before we get into the wonderful magical relationship that you have with Jen, which I think we’re all a little bit envious of. Talk to us about before that, like when you were thinking about bringing on a VP of development, what did that process look like? And how did you pinpoint the areas of expertise that you needed to bring on?
DeNora Getachew 5:24
Yeah, I know, such a great question. And I would say, when I came to dosomething last year, 2021, it was after an internal disruption for the organization amidst all of the external disruption that we were facing in the world, right? So if we can have that flashback moment, without too much PTSD, in 2021, we had, like, gotten to like what we thought maybe the outside would be open, and like some of the racial reckoning at its peak during 2020 had calmed down. But I joined an organization that had 28 years of track record of success, but so much of that success had largely been with corporate philanthropy, right? and really getting corporate philanthropy to invest in Call to Action campaigns to really activate young people.
DeNora Getachew 6:03
And when I was thinking about the future of dosomething, and I’ll just say to your listeners, you know, we spent the last 10 months or so heads down really focusing on a comprehensive strategic planning process and really think like, what’s the future of do something right? And a big component of that, for me, as the new CEO was grounded in like, it isn’t just about activating young people to take action, kind of on the spoke campaigns is one of our colleagues would say, but really getting young people to go deeper with their civic engagement and really think about this journey towards systemic impact.
DeNora Getachew 6:32
When you juxtapose that with, like, what do you need, and a chief development officer or VP of development, I needed someone with a well rounded set of skills, right? so that we can bring to the market a new vision for dosomething but also fundraise in ways that we hadn’t. So, fun fact about dosomething like I said, the majority of our revenue comes from corporate philanthropy, we hardly raise any money from individual donors. And I will tell you this that I was reading “Get that Money, Honey”, while I was flying across the Atlantic and highlighting away and answering all the quizzes, and one of the things that struck me is like, why are we not talking more to individuals? Right?
DeNora Getachew 7:07
So I came back to the office yesterday, and I said to John, I’m really fired up about talking to more individuals, right? So we needed someone with a well rounded set of fundraising competency. So someone who can help us diversify our revenue, bring in individuals, bring in traditional philanthropy, which by and large, had not been investing and dosomething. And then bringing government resources, right. I know, I’ve listened to some of your podcasts. And so many people have expertise in navigating government bureaucracy and getting tapping into those dollars. And I was like, we needed a leader who brought a full, diverse suite of experiences to the table. And so that was the lens through which we initiated a search to find Jen.
Rhea Wong 7:44
Alright, dig into this for me a little bit, DeNora, and I suspect I know the answer. But you’ve heard me speak about the hunter versus farmer dynamic, have you?
DeNora Getachew 7:53
Yes, I have.
Rhea Wong 7:54
Okay, so for folks who are not familiar, generally speaking, I think of fundraisers as falling into one of two categories as a dominant sort of default feature either a hunter or a farmer, I think we all have aspects of both, but essentially hunters that are kind of the lone wolves, they’d like to go out, you know, hunt the big game. And the farmers are the ones who are to make sure that the hunters don’t starve if they don’t find the big game. They’re the ones do scheduling, the harvesting, and the watering of the fields and the tending. So that’s a lot of the kind of procedural aspects of fundraising. DeNora, are you a hunter or a farmer? And when were you looking for, and, you know, how did that influence your search?
DeNora Getachew 8:36
I mean, I wonder what Jen answers this question would be because I feel like, exactly inquiring my kids want to know, I feel like I’m a little bit of both, right. Like, my dominant trait is definitely Hunter. But I- you know, one of the things that I focused on in general hopefully attest to this is like we needed our farming wasn’t in order, right? Like our actual infrastructure to do the hunting successfully didn’t exist, right. So people will say, like, for example, we didn’t have a functioning CRM that everybody was using with fidelity. So like, you like press your head against your palm, and you’re like, please, not a Google Sheet with like, contact info and like fundraising amounts.
DeNora Getachew 9:09
And so initially, I probably came in to dosomething more in farmer mode, right? Because I was doing all of this discovery and trying to learn what we are, what could we be, and then having brought Jen onto the team was able to, I think gradually I’m shifting more into my hunter mode. What would you say to that, Jen and if I can ask that.
Jen Moore 9:26
Oh, yeah not to be on the spot but yeah, I agree. I think when I first came on to the staff at dosomething, there was still there’s still is a little bit of farming that needs to be done in that space. But now that I can come in, it now let’s DeNora be the hunter that I feel like it was really you’re kind of what you lean into. And so I think that’s kind of the mix that we have is like I’m really able to kind of dig into all that work that needs to be done and so we can just you know, as DeNora likes to say “I can just wind her up and send her out.” Yeah, just send her out like she’s great when she’s, you know, I always say that DeNora is camera ready, you know, you can just, you know, you can prep her and you can just let her go, and then you’re not worried, you know, she’s going to stick to what needs to happen. And so I think that’s the really important thing about coming on is like, now I can pick up that work that she was doing before.
Rhea Wong 10:17
Okay, I’m gonna pause this there, because we’re gonna go down that road later. But I think we’re still a little bit upstream. So DeNora, one thing I know lots of people ponder is to hire a firm, or to not hire a firm. And I have gone the way of hiring a firm. I have a bias, but tell me about your decision-making around that and your process? I mean, I know you did hire a firm. So your process around hiring a firm?
DeNora Getachew 10:44
Yeah, no, I mean, it’s interesting, right? So I look back at my career at various other points when we were hiring a development lead, and I wasn’t, I didn’t always have the luxury, the privilege the resources to hire a firm. And so I’ve seen what it looks like to hire someone when you do the search yourself. And, you know, you’re hoping you can get a diverse pool of applicants, and how do you get through that pipeline, and who, what’s a skills assessment look like etc, etc.
DeNora Getachew 11:07
And the gents predecessor had been in this role for, I want to say six years, right. And so knowing that we were also making this pivotal shift with our new strategic direction, we went the route of hiring a firm because we needed someone to really not only find the right candidates, like I think, you know, not to humble brag, but like do some things brand is well known, right? So people want to be associated with it, want to help be a part of the work we’re doing. But to really make sure that we were getting the right type of leader who was going to help us with the farming but also building this next phase of the work and so consistent with our finance protocols, we put out an RFP, right, so we spoke to several firms, I can’t even I think at this point, it was probably like five or six, we narrowed it down to three, and then down to one. And we ended up working with Cara at harvest.
DeNora Getachew 11:54
And you know, what we really appreciated was having a firm that really specializes in the fundraising world, right? Because a lot of executive search firms, even when you think about the nonprofit landscape, do a little bit of everything kind of jack of all trades, and Kara’s expertise was really understanding the fundraising landscape. And what does it mean, to hire an experienced fundraising leader to match the needs of the organization? And so for us, there was a very strong fit there. I think my only pain point and challenges like when you’re going through a search process with a firm is like, they’re very clear upfront, like this is going to take months and you’re like, “can we hire the person tomorrow?” like, and that’s actually not the way it works, right? Like they do all their diligence, they learned about you as an organization, you build this pipeline and this profile of you.
DeNora Getachew 12:40
And then it’s like, months later, before you even get to like meet a candidate, right. And so, you know, my advice to listeners is also when you’re working with a firm, you have to be patient, and you have to be clear and kind of I think this is harder, especially for the the ED, CEO’s amongst us like trusting the process, because you’re just like, “Come on, we could get this person, I could just go on LinkedIn and I could like send them a DM.” And that’s not actually how it works as much anymore.
Rhea Wong 13:04
For sure. And shout out to Kara Logan Berlin, two-time podcast guest. She is, I think you may have seen her quoted in my book, she’s a genius. So Kara, if you’re out there, whew. Alright, last question about the process and then Jen, I want to jump over to you. DeNora, what is or what was your board’s involvement in the process? Because I’ve heard various schools of thought around how involved or not involved particularly around the development hire the board should be. So what did that look like for you?
DeNora Getachew 13:33
Yeah, and I mean, hopefully, when my board listens to this, they will agree that I am a transparent and collaborative leader, right. And so it was important for me to, for them to be a part of one to seeing the RFP and knowing that we’re putting feelers out to the world, but two, to invite a couple board members to be a part of the process. I think the challenge always is like aligning all the schedules and making the magic work, but I was grateful that board members had reviewed resumes, and if I’m not mistaken, had a chance to participate in interviews. Actually, I did participate in interviews with Jen. And so that’s a big, what’s the word? kudos like, you know, great moment of gratitude for the board and like being good board stewards and participating, right, because often board leaders sit at the table and a big component of their fiduciary responsibilities is like helping to fundraise for the organization and ensuring our fiscal health and this role is key to that. So it was great that board leaders stepped up to participate in the process, reviewed resumes, and we were, you know, kind of participating throughout.
Rhea Wong 14:27
Okay. I say this last question, but it really isn’t a real talk. How long did it take soup to nuts?
DeNora Getachew 14:35
It was like, almost six months. It was a long time, right? I mean, we knew we were like we were transitioning a leader. We knew we needed to launch the search process. We knew we needed to go through the interviews. And so that’s what I said to your listeners. It’s like don’t don’t underrate, you got to trust the process and you gotta be patient, right? I think if you’re actually making a hire that is sustainable for the long term, and one that’s going to be good fit for the organization, all of the diligence that goes into the process does actually pay dividends at the end, but a prior like, I really just want to slide into somebody’s DMS and like, friendly poach someone else’s employee. And like, you know, I think I, on the other side of the process, I’m incredibly grateful that I trusted the process and that it brought Jen to us and us to her.
Rhea Wong 15:19
That’s awesome. Okay, Jen, we’re gonna talk to you. So Jen, being an accomplished and experienced development executive means that you are very much in demand. So tell me a little bit about your process. Were you actively looking? And what was it about dosomething that really attracted you? Aside from mission? We know, the mission is very important. I don’t mean to be dismissive of that, but I think there are other aspects that really attract people to an organization. So say a little bit more about that.
Jen Moore 15:50
Yeah, so I was actively looking. And it’s interesting that DeNora talks about how long that search was, I had a pretty long search process myself, not because I wasn’t getting offers, but because they weren’t a fit. And so I probably turned down three or four offers before I took the offer at dosomething because at this point, in my career, it was really important to me that, you know, the values that I had established and kind of sat down and thought about for my life were really aligned both personally and professionally. And so that was like a lot of the work that I had done when I had decided to move on from my organization like, “where was I seen a disconnect, like, Where was that like not feeling like the the best alignment between my job and my personal life?”
Jen Moore 16:30
And so I needed to make that happen. I had my second child right at the beginning of COVID. So I had my four year old daughter at the time at home, and then a newborn, and so nothing like a pandemic and a new child to put everything into perspective for you. And so I feel like after the dust settled a little bit from that was when I really started thinking about like, what is my next step in my career? And like, what do I want to be doing next? What do I want to be exploring? And so really looking at that values alignment, and thinking about, like, where makes sense for me.
Jen Moore 17:00
I also think that it’s really important, you know, when you’re trying to find a new place, you’re doing interviews, and that’s like the best, like everyone like has their like their best on? And so how do you think about really probing and diving in questions about what’s going to happen when things go wrong? And I think that’s important for any relationship, whether it’s like with a partner, or business partner or marriage, you know, it’s great when everything’s going well, but like, how do you handle that when something’s not going well. And that was actually part of the really appealing part of dosomething to me is they were very upfront about the challenges that they’d had an or as an organization, and then also very upfront about what they were doing to, you know, remedy that, make sure it wasn’t happening again, and being really transparent and upfront about it. And so there was a lot about that, and kind of like, okay, you’ve gone through something really intense and really hard. And now, like, let’s see how they’re getting through that. And that was important to me.
Rhea Wong 17:53
Okay, could you say a little bit more? You said, it wasn’t a fit, it wasn’t values aligned? What were some of the indicators for you that that was true? Because I think I know, I have a couple of executive directors here on this call, who are thinking about how do I attract the best candidates to my organization?
Jen Moore 18:11
Yeah, that’s a great thing to drill down on. And so when I think about values, alignment with my job and my role, it’s like, “do I feel appreciated? Does my voice and my expertise matter? Is it being listened to?” I think sometimes in fundraising, you know, when you first get in, everyone’s like, yes, we understand that this is a long term strategy, and it’s going to take a little while to reap benefits. But is that actually how the organization treats things? Like, are they really ready to like, sit down and be patient for these, you know, some of the practices you’re putting in play, or some of the new strategies you’re doing, you’re not going to get money rolling in the door the first day. So, you know, that alignments really important to me, like, Are people really saying that they’re going to be patient? Is the organization putting resources where you need them in order to be able to raise the money, you know, sometimes you do have to spend a little bit of money to raise it.
Jen Moore 19:00
And so those are like some big things like, Is there support for the development team? Are there you know, resources, you know, needed to be able to make that money happen. And so those are a lot of the things that were really important, I think, when you’re talking about making sure that a candidate is, you know, is happy and stays, that’s about the retention.
Rhea Wong 19:21
And Jen, talk to me a little bit about any due diligence that you had kicking the tires on the leadership DeNora and the board, I mean, because at the end of the day, I think it also kind of boils down to like, do I like this person? Do I think that I can work well with this person? So talk to me a little bit about that.
Jen Moore 19:38
Yeah, well, I wouldn’t be a good fundraiser if I didn’t do my research right. Like that’s, you know, got there. And so I did you know, probably what everyone should be doing, if they’re not doing when they’re doing their searches is like, aside from what you can find on you know, Google and doing that. It’s like, Who are you leveraging in your network to like, find out like, you know, what the situation is like, Where else have they worked? Like who are the the links in common, you know, It’s interesting as DeNora and I keep working together, we keep realizing how like intertwined our networks are like she, you know, she’ll be like, “oh, this person!” I’ll be like, “Oh, I worked with that event consultant to jobs to go to” and like, so like, there’s a lot of just interesting, you know, synergies we had.
Jen Moore 20:13
And so just like doing that research, like, who am I talking to that had previously, you know, either worked with someone else at dosomething or with, you know, the board members and just really diving into that, like, what can you find? I felt like, I was very fortunate because the search process did have, you know, several rounds, and I had a different set of questions I was able to kind of dive into each time. And so that was also part of it is like trying to suss out, like, how just like how they handle situations as well.
Rhea Wong 20:40
You know, this is statistically that you cross paths with the person that you end up marrying seven times before you actually meet. So I’m wondering if this is a similar situation where it’s like you’ve crossed paths seven times before you had a professional marriage. Fun fact.
DeNora Getachew 20:54
I talk a lot about professional marriages and like marriages of with funders, right, so I’m- that I love that analogy. We were destined, and we’re both Virgo. So we like get oh, yeah, we’re…
Rhea Wong 21:04
oh my gosh, that’s so funny.
Jen Moore 21:08
I totally forgot about that we’re both Virgos. Our birthdays are like a couple of days apart. So yeah.
Rhea Wong 21:12
That is so funny. I’m putting out some serious Virgo energy. I was on a webinar with Brooke Richie-Babbage and David McCoy, both of whom are Virgos. He was like, “What is this Virgo energy I’m putting out there?” I love Virgos. They’re sorting my messiness out. Okay, we’re all messy. So let’s talk about the the early days the you know, the honeymoon, how did you to set the tone for your relationship? Like, what did that look like? and DeNora, let’s start with you.
DeNora Getachew 21:44
I know you’ve missed my voice. I feel like I’m like I want to talk. I’m, I just want the listeners to know I am not as like high tech, they both have these cool mics. And I’m just sitting here with my headphones trying my best to keep up. So have you jumped back in the conversation? But it’s interesting, right? So when Jen accepted and then came on board, we were in this strategic planning process still, right, the one that I talked about. And so there was a lot of like, when you onboard someone, how do you talk to them about what you have done while talking to them about what you want and aspire to do? And actually, you know, ultimately, what you are going to commit to doing right?
DeNora Getachew 22:16
And so Jen entered the conversation during that moment. And so it was like a series of onboarding discussions, both about the past, the present, and future, but also helping Jen to get acclimated to a team that, you know, she hadn’t hired, right, so many, almost all of her colleagues had been hired, all of them actually had been hired before she had, right. And so giving her a window into my thinking and really of like, what were we thinking when we were mapping out the org design for this new development department, which was different than the former iteration of the vertical, which was called business development really focused on that corporate philanthropy. And so now, the team as constituted includes vet, Jen is the VP of development at the director of individual giving, really focusing on getting that money, honey from all of those individuals.
DeNora Getachew 22:59
A director of corporate partnerships, again, playing on and deepening our sweet spot, right, where we historically have done well, with fundraising. And then a team underneath the director of corporate partnerships, that includes partnership managers who are focused on, you know, facilitating and stewarding those corporate relationships. And so, you know, as part of that onboarding, also wanted to give Jen a window into my thinking about why these people why this role? What are we hoping to drive forward and beyond just the interview conversation, right? Because I think to the point, Jen made, it’s like, during the interview, it’s all it’s sweet. It’s we’re all in honeymoon phase. And we’re like, This is so great, I love I’m gonna get married to this person. And then when you come on board, you’re like, let me just take off the blinders. Like, tell me all the things right.
DeNora Getachew 23:40
And so I’m a transparent collaborative leader. And so it was like, Jen, let’s roll up the sleeves and tell you all the things. I think what’s been interesting, and I would love to hear Jen’s perspective is that we are both learning new things, both of us, right, because let’s remember that I’ve got like a year and a half of tenure in the organization, and she’s got six months. So we’re both learning a lot while doing and then also trying to build a future state and farming right. So like putting the systems in place, like getting our Salesforce in order, doing all that stuff. And I said to Jen, yesterday, I was very clear, I guess reading that book on my flight home helped me focus. Like, there’s so many people who I have not engaged with, right? And we haven’t really talked about the individual donor pipeline and what that means. And so really focusing more on like, getting more time, like literally one on one time with Jen and her team, just like roll up the sleeves and like how do we do this? But would love to hear Jen’s perspective about how that honeymoon, you know, evolved into our marriage, if you will?
Jen Moore 24:35
Yeah, that’s great. I think the biggest thing even happened before I started, which was the expectations were really clear, and everyone was very upfront about what the situation was coming into the organization. And so this idea that there was a new department kind of direction that was happening, they were looking for someone who was willing to kind of roll up their sleeves and build it. They weren’t looking for someone who just wanted to kind of come in at the top and just keep doing things as they’d been done before. And so I, I feel that by having that expectation set ahead of time, just made it really clear whether or not like, I mean, this was a fit for me because that was something I was really interested in.
Jen Moore 25:11
And then I’d also say that, although it feels like it was such like drinking from the firehose, at the time, the onboarding process of dosomething is like really extensive. And it’s very well thought out. And there’s like, a lot of layers to it. DeNora though, did, you know, kindly remind me as a fellow Virgo like, in order to go fast, you have to go slow. And I say this all the time to other new people that come because it’s true, it’s like, there’s so much to be able to take in because you do need to understand the history, what was like happening before the organization, so you can like just be able to use that as your Springboarding forward. So those were the things that were like really kind of helpful in level setting.
Jen Moore 25:50
I also think that DeNora is extremely transparent and collaborative. And so you know, there isn’t like, “Okay, Jen, there’s this problem over here,” like, you need to go over here and solve it, like, you know, we are able to, like, figure out how we’re going to do that for the organization. And that’s helpful. And I feel like that’s also sets the tone for the team like, that’s also how I work with my team, like, you know, everyone is a doer, there isn’t, you know, we’re a small team so there isn’t like someone who just like sits around and oversees all the things that get done, everyone is doing a lot of work, and everyone is doing really important work.
Jen Moore 26:20
And so I think that that’s kind of like just the tone that we said is that we were going to be really clear, we were going to do as much collaboration as we could together, we keep each other in the loop. There’s so many like VCCs and forwards, just just making sure you know, just making sure you know this, because that way we can be acting together. And we can be acting faster and having conversations moving things forward. If we’re not then having to backtrack and be like, Oh, wait, I think I forgot to tell you about this, like, everyone just keeps everyone in the loop. You know, no one’s checking up on anyone. It’s just like how the communication style works.
Rhea Wong 26:50
That’s really great to know. And in the ways in which technology can facilitate that is helpful. Talk to me a little bit about decision-making, because I often think that areas of conflict occur around decision-making, like I thought I had the decision-making but you have the decision-making, I thought it had the veto power, etc. Did you have an explicit conversation around decision-making?
Jen Moore 27:13
Yeah, I feel like the I mean, DeNora you can jump in, but I feel like just overall like one of the things that’s great about coming in to dosomething is because it’s a very well thought out established organization that has a lot of just practices around that, you know, we use, I’m gonna mess up which framework we use for decision-making. I think it’s rapid, we use rapid for decision-making. We have vocals upon vocals upon vocals. And so, I think at first for me, that was new, because, you know, in previous roles, you know, I had a lot of that conflict. I thought I got to approve this, or I said that we can do nope, nope. So we can’t. So there was a lot of that. And so it’s very clear coming in at dosomething is like, here’s the rapid here, this is the framework we’re using for this. Here’s the mock up for the different projects that we’re working on. And those are in flux and we’re shifting those like as like we move through the new strategic direction. But I felt like just having that from the gecko was really helpful in level setting.
DeNora Getachew 28:07
I wholeheartedly agree, and I think it like Jen said, that is a work in progress, right. So as the organization is growing, and we’re bringing on new team members, we’re evolving how all of that cross collaborative work, is executed. But having to be transparent and laid out from the outset, I think, is like, the key to success for everyone. So we were like, “Wait, when does someone needs to be relayed in?” Are they just being consulted? Or what’s the process. And so, you know, it’s been great to work with the team and use those systems to provide more clarity.
Rhea Wong 28:37
And for listeners who are not familiar with the rapid framework, I’ll make sure to post the resources in the show notes. One of my favorite Harvard Business Review articles has the unfortunate title of who has the D. But that’s where the rapid framework comes from. So you have to look past the unfortunate title, but there’s good content there.
Rhea Wong 29:05
Last question for you before we open it for the audience. So it’s clear that you both have really invested in this relationship. We’ve talked about some of the things that you’ve done around transparency, and being really transparent, and collaborative. Any other takeaways that you can give our audience like as they’re thinking about either bringing on a new person or Jen, in your case, maybe having to manage up to a boss?
DeNora Getachew 29:33
I think one thing and I wonder, I wonder if this will resonate, we haven’t talked about it in a while, Jen. But when Jen first came on, I asked her to do the asking styles quiz because I wanted to know if Jen and I are sitting in a room together, who’s bringing what vibe to the table, right? And like are you the Rainmaker? Are you the storyteller, etc. Now that the outside is open, I’m looking forward to go into more meetings with Jen and the development team and the outside and I mean, we do them virtually, of course, and when it’s virtual, you can always like Slack and chat each other behind the scenes fun fact. But when you’re in person, you’ve got to know that dynamic and have that rapport. And so I thought that was also really helpful to building the right foundation and our relationship just to understand like, are we? Are we bringing the same strengths to the table? Are we bringing different strengths to the table? And what does that how does that help us be successful fundraisers?
Jen Moore 30:21
Yeah, I remember that was like, the first homework assignment I had was like, this quiz and send it to me. And I was like, Okay, I’m gonna do this. I also think that yeah, I think that was really helpful too. And like, just understanding like, where we are, I think that the other thing I would say is, like, we did take time to just get to know each other, not work wise, you know, I remember it was like one of those beautiful, like, spring days, like, we got to have lunch outside and just, you know, you eventually get to the point where you start talking about work and everything, but it didn’t start that way. And I feel like those moments are just so important. And that’s another thing that I like about dosomething is like we take time for those, like, we take time at the beginning of meetings to just like, have that moment like, you know, when DeNora asked, like, how are you doing, it’s like, she means it, she doesn’t just want you to say okay, so we can move on, like check that I asked her how she was doing check, we can move on to the next thing.
Jen Moore 31:07
And so I think that, you know, having a leader that is empathetic, and truly like that way empathetic, I think that helps, you know, make the relationship happen. I think that DeNora and I are both very open with each other. If there’s something that’s not working, like, there’s space, you know, for me to come in, I wouldn’t say like, it’s like the virtual open door policy, like if something’s not working, like, you know, we can have a conversation about it, and we can unpack it and like, why is it not working? What is the blocker? You know, DeNora always says to me, like, if I’m stopping something like, let me know, because if I don’t know that I’m like, the blocker like, I want to unblock that.
Jen Moore 31:39
And other times, it’s like, I need her, I want her guidance on it. Like, how can you help me like unstick something like I need your help, I don’t need you to do it for me. But I want you to help guide me in that way. And so I think setting that tone from the beginning has been really important is like, you know, she is my manager or my direct supervisor. But we really did entered into a partnership. And I’ll say like, that was one of the questions I asked in my interview is like, how do you view the CEO, you know, CTO partnership. And I wanted to hear that from her before I said, what my thoughts were on it, because that’s really telling is like how you’re walking into that situation.
Rhea Wong 32:13
Yeah, and a couple of things strike me, as both of you are talking because I do think sometimes, and I’ve certainly had this happen, where people say things in interviews, and then the reality when they show up for work is like what happened in the person I interviewed, right? So I think the fact that both of you actually were who you said you were in and represented yourself is key, certainly. And then the other piece, too, that I think is really interesting is taking the time to get to know like and trust each other, right? Because I think we’re so often in go, go, go mode that we forget that we’re dealing with humans that have feelings. And the thing that strikes me too, for both of you is there’s a level of self-awareness that seems like you really brought to the table. I’m curious around how you develop that. Did you engage in coaching? Like what did that process look like? To Know thyself? DeNora, let’s start with you.
DeNora Getachew 33:12
Sorry, I accidentally pressed whiteboarding button, which I’ve never used. And I was like, wait, I’m trying to hit unmute, um, you know, thank you for the compliments what I’d say right, it’s a work in progress to continue to be to show up as your best self to be self-aware, etc. Right? When you’re especially when you’re virtual, right? I say to my colleagues, I’m like, I have to do my best to be charismatic on screen. But I promise I’m even better in person. You attest to this, I hope, right? Like it’s hard, right? Because when you’re doing the work virtually, and let’s be honest, the work of fundraising is ultimately about the bottom line of the business, right? Like how do you raise the revenue to do the work that you are chartered to do, right, so like the lawyer in me, the process oriented person is like, I have a fundamental duty to raise this money to make sure we have this team to make sure that we are doing this programming to make sure we’re fulfilling our mission.
DeNora Getachew 34:00
And so sometimes those two are in tension, right? Because especially now that we’re past the halfway mark of the year, you’re like, it’s time we gotta go, we gotta go faster. But you also have to continue to embody those that empathy, that clarity, that transparency. And so for me, it’s always just remembering that Northstar, right and started first and foremost with people like, we all show up to this work as individuals, right? And a lot of the work we’re doing now, as part of our new strategic direction is thinking about like, what is our personal why? like, what, what brings us to belong do something? And how do we create a space where everyone can see themselves as belonging and dosomething based on the collective or of the personal lives? And that’s hard work, right? Because often, you’re just in the weeds of doing work like I’m just here thinking like, how many people that have every right to today how many people are in the pipeline? How do we you know, get the money honey, if you will, I mean, what a great title it’s like do something it’s like you just like, and so it’s remembering balance those two of like keeping both of those centered of like, don’t lose yourself, if you will, while trying to do the good work.
Jen Moore 35:02
Well, that’s hard to go after that answer. That’s like, super. That was amazing. So yeah, I would say that I think about, like, my self-awareness started from being a dancer, like you’re constantly in a place where you’re just improving like, that’s what it’s about. There’s someone, normally there’s someone who’s telling you all the things that you’re doing wrong, and you’re just like, you know, sitting there taking it in and moving forward. But I think that’s just how I am as a person. Like I’m, you know, growth mindset is a really important thing and our organization. And I think that that’s just kind of how I live my life as well. Like, I was thinking the other day, like, Oh, I think I’m gonna pick up tennis and do this thing, because it’s always like, what’s next? Like, what is something else that I can add to that toolkit?
Jen Moore 35:41
And the only way you can figure out what you want to add next is like looking really intentionally about like, what you don’t have like, what is missing? Like, what is the next step? And so I’ll just go back and say, like, when I was thinking about moving on from my previous job is like, I did a lot of work to try and figure out like, what that even meant, like, what is the next thing like, what am I really looking for? How is that changed now that my life has changed, and the whole world has changed? And so I think that that was really important because I feel like early on in the process, I was like, “Oh, I just want a new job. I just want a new job.” And nothing was feeling like the fit because I hadn’t done the work myself to figure out like, how do I want to show up in this new job? Like, how do I really want to be? And once that work was done, then I felt it was much easier for me to determine like where I wanted to be and how I could be there.
DeNora Getachew 36:25
I love that answer, Jen if I could just like one of the things that that calls up for me if I can say more is like this notion of like a personal mission statement, right? Like, often when we’re ready to find a new job, you’re like, hair on fire, right? And like, the intentionality of slowing down is one of my friends and mentors to me. And like being clear, like, yes, we don’t need it to be like this glossy, perfect version of your personal mission statement, but like, what motivates you to do the things that you do? Because often, when you have that articulated in some formal or informal way, it’s a filter or a screen for what roles you should be looking at, or not even looking at, right?
DeNora Getachew 36:57
So I often in previous job searches, right? I was like, “Oh, I definitely want to be working in philanthropy.” Like I’m thinking about it more from like a well rounded competency, oh, I will I don’t have that on my resume. I want to work in philanthropy, I want to I can make those decisions and be a part of that process. And then when I looked at one, like what are my core strengths, like, what do I thrive in doing? I’m an extrovert, I’m communicative, etc. Like those roles are not necessarily suited to me, right. But I would keep looking and then hitting him ahead with frustration when I wasn’t being offered the job. And it’s like, no, no, you’re supposed to be doing these types of roles. And so I love that point that you made there, Jen of just being clear with yourself about your own kind of personal mission statement and Northstar.
Rhea Wong 37:36
Okay, I have a potentially salacious question here, which is, you know, we talked about when things are going well, when everything is hunky dory, what happens when things get a little tense? Like what happens in conflict? Because I think it’s very informative to understand your partner when things are not going well, can Is there a story you can share? Or has it all just been hunky dory?
Jen Moore 38:03
I mean, I’m not I don’t I mean, it hasn’t all been hunky dory. It’s hard work to fundraise. But I think because we don’t have a story is actually indicative of the partnership. I mean, there are days that are hard. And I feel like that’s the thing that’s I think that does fit for our partnership is we don’t shy away from that conversation about saying like, there’s no hiding something under the table. Like, because we’re just a transparent, you know, we’re a transparent parent, we’re a transparent organization. So there is no like, “Oh, no one knows that this grant didn’t come in, or no one knows that this situation didn’t happen,” like, and I think that that makes it not have these, like bigger situations, right? Because you’re kind of just handling them as they go.
Jen Moore 38:43
I guess I’ll say like, just how we’ve handled it is like, we just kind of sit through it and figure out what it is like, you know, we’re not we’re gonna, I used to, I was reading something about my, about my children at some point that was like, You need to let have, allow yourself to have the feeling, right. Like, it’s okay, if it doesn’t work out. So like, let yourself have that feeling of frustration, or disappointment or anger or whatever it is, like, have that moment. And then you need to move on. And so I feel like that’s kind of, you know, that’s kind of how I work. And I think that that’s really set us up at the organization for keeping the fundraising moving forward. Like, yeah, it’s really disappointing when something doesn’t come to fruition or there’s like something that’s out of your control. But then I’ll say it’s really good. We like take that moment. And then we’re like, okay, what are we doing next? Like, what’s next in the pipeline? Like, who’s the next conversation? Who do we need to follow up with like, and I think that’s the Virgo in both of us. It’s just like, let’s go, go, go, go, go.
DeNora Getachew 39:34
Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree with that. And I was like, racking my brain. I was like, salacious. And I was like, Well, I don’t actually, I don’t have a story. I think it’s because neither one of us is sick, kind of harboring the emotions or the feedback like I’m transparent and I don’t want to hold on to the feedback so even an email or communication I’m like, Jen, and our check ins like just want to touch base about this or like, the ruffle your feathers that I did this or like, by the way, I was at a conference and I made 20 thousand new friends. I’m sure that’s overwhelming, let’s prioritize which new friends we actually need to be friends with. And so I think what because we have that conversation kind of openly and out loud, it doesn’t bubble up to being an issue, if you will. And I hope that I will continue to be the case.
Rhea Wong 40:15
Excellent. All right. Well, this has been great. Obviously, you two. It’s a match made in professional heaven, which is fantastic. Last question that I wanted to ask. It’s been sort of a fun question, but if you had a billboard, to communicate anything to the world, metaphorically speaking, what would be on your billboard? I know, this is sort of a last minute question. So you can also pass
Jen Moore 40:44
Oh, I feel like I’m not going to have like good words but it because I’m like, it takes me a while to get to the word sometimes. But I feel like, there would be like the billboard or something about like, have the conversation. Like, that’s what I feel like is like, the most important and like, whether it’s like with your boss, with the funder, with your staff member is like, Have the conversation.
DeNora Getachew 41:08
That’s a good one. I will say, and maybe this is like my own personal taglines. So it’ll be completely on brand, which is like democracy, whether that’s happening at your decision-making tables internally, you know, with your family. societally. Democracy is a full context sport, and so get engaged, right, like, I think it is important for us all to roll up our sleeves and get engaged in that ball contact sport, we can take a break, we can like sit on the bench for a little bit when we need to rest but like, need everybody to get engaged.
Rhea Wong 41:40
And so no truer than right now, and actually, Jen, your billboard made me think about a interview I did with Susan Scott of fierce conversations when she said the conversation is the relationship. So, I encourage folks to go back to listen to that podcast because it was fire. Is it alright, if I put both of your LinkedIn contacts in the show notes, if folks want to get in touch with you?
Jen Moore 42:05
That’d be great.
Rhea Wong 42:07
Okay, well, Nora, Jen, thank you so much. This has been such a delight. For those out there, it is possible to find your professional match made in heaven. We have proof. There are unicorns that exist. So thanks so much to both of you.
DeNora Getachew 42:22
Thank you. Thanks.
Rhea Wong 42:24
Have a good week, everyone.
Connect with DeNora and Jen:
DeNora Getachew LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/denora-getachew/
Jen Moore LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennmoore02/
Website: Fueling Young People to Change the World | DoSomething.org
If you want the full episode transcript, check here: https://www.rheawong.com/podcast/
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Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/nonprofitlowdown/support
