Ever felt the sting of microaggressions while doing your nonprofit work?
Or perhaps you’ve noticed that most fundraising departments are predominantly white, leaving women of color to navigate tricky, often unwelcoming spaces?
I am here to help as I welcome a powerhouse panel of experts who delve into the world of Black women fundraisers, the difficulties they face, and the importance of inclusive support networks.
Learn firsthand from Christal Cherry, Aquanetta Betts, Ninjia Miles, and Christal Crosby as they share their journeys, insights, and powerful advice.
⭐Christal Cherry: Founder of F3 (Fabulous Female Fundraisers) and a veteran in the nonprofit sector, her career is a testament to resilience and the power of community.
⭐Aquanetta Betts: Director of Planned Giving at George Mason University, Aquanetta emphasizes the importance of creating knowledge-sharing spaces within the fundraising community.
⭐Ninjia Miles: Director of Development for Black Philanthropy at Indiana University Foundation, Ninjia provides insights into the philanthropic contributions of communities of color and the critical need for diverse fundraisers who understand these nuances.
⭐Christal Crosby: Director of Events and Programs at Case Western University, Christal shares her experiences and the importance of institutions preparing adequately to support and integrate diverse leadership.
Navigating the nonprofit sector can be a daunting task, especially for women of color.
This episode provides not only a candid discussion but practical advice for executive directors on how to foster an inclusive culture that truly supports BIPOC fundraisers.
Don’t miss out on this critical conversation!
Hit play on this insightful episode of Nonprofit Lowdown to arm yourself with the knowledge and tools to make lasting, positive changes in your organization.
Let’s create a more inclusive world, one fundraiser at a time!
Important Links:
fabfemalefundraisers.org
Episode Transcript
RHEA 00:00
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Welcome to Nonprofit Lowdown, I’m your host, Rhea Wong.
Hey, podcast listeners, Rhea Wong with you once again with Nonprofit Lowdown. Today, I am talking with not one, not two, not three, but four guests on one of my favorite topics, which is a topic of, women of color. Fundraisers. I don’t think we talk enough about this. And so it is my delight to invite my friend, Christal Cherry, the board pro founder and board chair of F3 to come with her friends to talk about how to support women of color fundraisers and specifically black female fundraisers in the space.
So I have the distinct pleasure of welcoming Christal Crosby, who is the Director of Events and Programs at Case Western University in Cleveland, Ohio. Ninjia Miles, Director of Development, Black Philanthropy, Indiana University Foundation in Indianapolis, Indiana. And Aquanetta Betts, George Mason University Director of Plan Giving in Fairfax, Virginia.
Ladies, welcome to the show.
CHRISTAL CHERRY 01:34
Hey there.
RHEA 01:36
Look at all this beautifulness. And of course, Crystal, always with the glasses. I’m a sucker for good eyewear. So in the funny days, we have two crystals. So I’ll say crystal. I can’t even say crystal seed because that’s your crystal seed. So Crystal Cherry, let’s start with you.
Tell me a little bit about what is F3 and what was the inspiration behind it for you?
CHRISTAL CHERRY 01:59
Yeah, F3 is Fabulous Female Fundraisers and it it just started out with two girlfriends getting together to gripe about, working in the fundraising sector with non profits, right?
All the frustrations that we go through, we uh, And we got together and just decided we needed to bet and talk and have a space where we felt safe. And that grew into 25 people meeting every month here in Atlanta, Georgia for about a year before COVID. And then when COVID hit, we went virtual and started meeting virtually.
And that caught up in all the Zoom rooms. There was a lot of talk about Black women in philanthropy around that time. I sat in on a panel. I think we can did. I think AADL, Birgit Burton did something on black fundraisers. And so I sat on that panel and then all of a sudden we started getting inquiries about how do we join this network of black women?
Women of color in Atlanta. And we opened the doors to other folks. And as a result, we have people here who are not in Atlanta, who have now joined the organization. And now I can say we’re 60 strong in 22 States and Canada. So I’m very excited about our growth.
RHEA 03:07
That’s incredible. And coming out of the pandemic, I feel like you are, I hope this doesn’t come off as offensive, but basically you are unicorns.
Like you’re holding the keys to the castle. Like everyone is out here trying to find. Women of color fundraisers. And I feel like Crystal you found the people. So, Aquanetta, Crystal, Nigel, over to you briefly, can you just give us a quick sense of your background in nonprofit and why F3 matters to you as fundraisers in the field?
Aquanetta, let’s start with you.
AQUANETTA 03:36
Yeah, so F3 has been a great space for me. I found F3 probably something on social media or some email somewhere and I thought, Oh, wow, what a great group. Look at all the folks who are in this group and we run the gamut as far as fundraising goes. We have grant writers, we have VPs of advancement, we have Planned Giving folks, you name it.
They’re in F3. And so the knowledge bank is huge. If I have a question about anything regarding nonprofits, fundraising, I go to F3, I put in something in the chat. There are all these great responses that come back. So professionally, as well as personally, F3 has been invaluable. In my growth and also having a space where other folks can see the work that I do and perhaps plan giving has been something they thought, I don’t see many people of color in that space.
And so having F3 as somewhat of a safe space to bounce ideas off of is just a phenomenal asset professionally and personally for me. So kudos to Crystal for having the foresight to start the organization.
RHEA 04:57
Excellent. Nigel, actually, I’d love to bounce a question off to you because I know we’ve had folks on this podcast who’ve talked about the changing face of philanthropy and in particular communities of color that have more wealth that are able to donate at unprecedented levels.
I’m just wondering, to your mind, what is the importance of making sure that we attract and retain fundraisers of color as we think about diversifying our fundraising base?
NINJIA 05:26
Yeah, that’s a great question. I think what’s really important is to one, just understand that one first and foremost communities of color have always been philanthropic.
This isn’t a newer concept. There’s a greater light on it now, but this has always happened. And as a black female fundraiser, I’m aware of that, you know, I in philanthropy in the ways that resonate are very common. in my community. And just for fundraisers of color, we understand what that looks like.
And we’re also not coming to them as this is the first time that you’re being philanthropic. This is a new con, concept for you. And so it’s really important to have people in organizations from these groups who can one, educate and advocate but also just understand maybe the nuance some of, what is important in relationship building how to approach these donors, what’s the best way to go about that so that they are willing and interested in supporting the organizations.
RHEA 06:19
Excellent. Crystal Crosby over to you. I, and I’m sure you all probably have had this experience as well of being the only, right? So I often found myself in rooms where predominantly white, I was the only, or maybe one of a handful of folks of color. And so I’m just wondering for yourself what is your, been your experience of fundraising?
are there any instances where you felt like you really would have appreciated having this kind of community before you had this community.
CHRISTAL CROSBY 06:51
Absolutely. Definitely. My background is working with primarily predominantly white institutions. So I think that I’ve definitely had those conversations or those experiences where comments and microaggressions have been said.
And then. To the point, and I’m 1 of those people I address it or address it to my supervisor and them not knowing like, how to handle that or what to do with that information or even almost disregarding it in a way. I remember 1 instance in particular, where I was out to dinner with a donor and he made some comments about, me and where I went to undergrad. And I remember going back to my supervisor saying hey, I had this conversation. I had the situation and then nothing ever coming of it being not say dismissed, but maybe that’s just the way he is. Or that’s just the way that they talk, especially when you’re dealing with kind of male.
Older kind of that over 60 white male engineering crowd. So I think that the importance of having these sorts of networks is that a in those moments a being able to be heard or knowing that like, because sometimes you, I know we’ve all been in the situation where you just kind of like, well, I’m not crazy.
Or maybe they, maybe they didn’t, is it me, but having that network and having that support system that kind of validates how you’re feeling and knowing that you’re not alone and that you’re not, And saying, yes, I did hear right or yes, I did understand that. And I am reading the situation accurately and then giving you those tools and that advice to kind of help you navigate those difficult conversations that you often have to have with, supervisors and employers that don’t look like you, and I think that F3 and being a part of this group has been instrumental for me and helping me advocate for myself and providing with those tools and giving me advice. And then just again, I feel like Christal said, just sometimes you just need to vent. And just say like, this man is crazy, so I think that’s the benefit of these sorts of communities is that again, giving you those tools from someone that’s been there and can help you navigate those difficult conversations.
RHEA 08:49
Yeah. Thank you, Christal. So this question is for any one of you. I know that there are folks in the nonprofit sector that listen to this podcast and we know that it’s not just enough to hire a fundraiser of color. We also need to think about how are we setting them up for success as leaders, and supporting them, right?
Cause Christal, to your point, I think when you feel unsupported or you feel like you’re being gaslighted by your executives, you’re like, am I crazy? And it leads to burnout. So just curious, as folks are listening to this, what are the things that leaders and boards should be thinking about when bringing on the leadership?
A fundraiser of color and setting them up for success.
CHRISTAL CHERRY 09:29
I will say this. I remember in an interview once I asked whether or not their donors and their board members were ready to have not only a woman of color, but a bold woman of color from New York city.
Cause I live in the South. And so were they ready to have someone like me on their team? And I think that’s a legitimate question when you’re, Coming into a culture where you’re playing a huge role. You’re, you’re all in the nooks and crannies of the organization. You’re interfacing with the staff, with the program people, with the finance office, with donors, with volunteers, with stakeholders.
And if this is not a culture that’s going to be welcoming, of someone from a different background who may speak differently, who may see things differently, then you’re setting that person up for failure. And so I think in that interview, they were shocked that I asked that question, but I’ve learned from being in places where I didn’t feel welcome to now ask that question before I put myself, before I insert myself in a culture.
And so I say to those who are hiring What is your culture of your organization? How are you preparing to bring in people who may not have the same opinions and voice voices and lifestyles as everyone else? And so how you bring me in, how you introduce me to staff, whether or not my pictures on the website, whether or not you welcome me in the newsletter, whether or not you let the board know I’m coming and then invite me to come and introduce myself, how you present me to the community is going to stay, send a strong message to them.
This person is important in this community and we’re putting her front and center because we want you to know who she is. Now, if I’m not announced, if I’m sitting in the back of the room or I’m sitting on the periphery of the wall in the board meeting, then what’s the message, right? It’s, I think that’s the message for us is that you’re really going to have to present us in a way to let the community know that we’re important and a part of the community.
RHEA 11:11
Yeah, that’s so critical. Christal, I want to go back to something you said, because I think A lot of us have experienced microaggressions in the course of doing business, right? And I would, look, I would argue that probably women in particular have experienced their fair share of, sticky situations or icky situations.
So I guess I’m wondering how have you navigated this and Are microaggressions, I hate to say it’s like a part of doing business, which is a terrible thing to say, but I also having, experiences myself, I’m sure y’all have experiences as well. What do we do about this when we also know that sometimes money hangs in the balance?
CHRISTAL CROSBY 11:53
Wow. That’s a great question. I think that for me, when an encounter with those types of experiences, it’s just and in that moment, just to deflect and get the attention off yourself. And and that and as much as you want to go sister girl, but let me tell you and let me educate you that’s not even appropriate or something that you would ever deal with especially with a donor of the institution.
But I think it’s just going back and going back to my employer to my division and saying, hey, this is what happened. Have we even considered having an opportunity or training for, us as professionals, how do we. Deal with those types of things because I don’t know what’s the right answer or the what the exact wrong answer is.
But how do we deal with that? And then how are we making sure that we’re showing up in spaces or that as an institution, we’re saying that like diversity and people of color and those are things that we value an institution. Then how do we make sure that our donors and our alumni also understand that those are key values for us as an institution so making sure that we’re reinforcing that message so as much as you want to go.
Let me tell you, and read somebody. But I think for me, it’s just going back to our division to again, raise those questions and to bring those points up across and to say that this isn’t like we don’t exist in a vacuum. So how are we appearing and showing up to our donors and our alumni and people that we’re engaging with as an institution?
RHEA 13:16
Yeah. Really excellent point. I’m curious, Ninjia and Aquanetta, if you have any additional points about what does support look like? Because I think I’m just putting on my own hat as a former executive director. I don’t know necessarily what support could look like. And I do think that especially post George Floyd, there are changing conversations that are absolutely necessary and need to happen.
And from your perspective, like what. What advice would you give to the leader who is wanting to be supportive, wanting to move the needle forward, but not necessarily knowing what the right thing to do is?
AQUANETTA 13:52
Yes, sir, I’ll chime in here really quickly. The 1 thing I do want to piggyback on a crystal Crosby said, when you go to leadership, whether it’s your manager supervisor, whomever the leader is having the leader to take a step back and understand that.
The fundraiser is expressing their feelings and their feelings are real and legitimate. And so none of the, oh, grow tough skin or get over it, that’s the wrong way to be supportive. So I think from a leadership standpoint, just recognizing that fundraiser is coming to you, sharing how they feel, and we can’t dismiss a person’s feelings.
So that is like the basis, I think, for support. Training for leaders. On how to address these conversations, because they certainly do happen to fundraisers of color in particular. I know there are some donor bill of rights, or there are some ways that a donor should behave or act. And there’s some things out there, different organizations have put out there.
Just knowing that donors, oftentimes may say things that are inappropriate or insensitive. I think leadership should find a way to support their fundraisers of color around those ideas because they certainly do happen and they happen a lot more I think than leadership realizes. So being supportive in that way and not dismissing a fundraiser’s feelings or the way they have taken in a comment from a donor.
NINJIA 15:22
Yeah, I think the only thing I would add is, in addition to, creating that space where a fundraiser can share with, the experiences and how that’s making them feel making sure that as a supervisor, a leader, that you are helping cultivate a safe space for them to go and do the work and the impact that they’re trying to make.
And so that may mean having an uncomfortable conversation with a donor. A lot of times we put a heavy emphasis on a donor and how much they’ve given to an organization and let that. Rule how they move in the space, and it may be at the expense of fundraisers for their own personal safety.
And so there may be a space where you may have to have a conversation with a donor and just, let them know and be okay with that. And so there’s, I know we tend to give all the power to the donor, but also as we, we try to show up in the space and be ourselves and authentic and represent the organization.
We should also feel safe.
RHEA 16:12
Thanks, Ninjia. Actually, Aquanetta, I have a question for you because you are in planned giving, which is not necessarily an area that a lot of people think about in terms of fundraising and certainly I personally have not seen a lot of folks in, of color in planned giving.
So I’m just curious, like how did you end up in planned giving and what has your experience been like talking to people about their wills and bequests?
AQUANETTA 16:34
Yeah. I absolutely love plan giving. I have a background as an estate and trust attorney. So it’s like the perfect marriage of working with folks who were leaving gifts to charities through their estate plans.
And what really sparked my interest is that over the years as an estate planning attorney clients would come into the office before we even talked about charitable giving. And as we’ve heard giving, being charitable is nothing new to communities of color. It’s just the way or the method that we’ve gone about it.
And the folks will come in. They pull out lists of charities, shirt pocket or purse. They grab this handwritten note. And I was just blown away time and time again with the generosity. And so that sparked my interest into plan giving. I realized there are nonprofits who are not. Really stewarding these folks.
They’re not on the radars. They may not be huge givers during their lifetime, but upon their passing, they’re leaving significant gifts. And so there’s a gap there. I saw that gap and I thought, huh, there’s a lot more that nonprofits can do. So that’s my segue into plan giving absolutely love it when it comes to donors of color.
There’s a lack of documentation. So the charitable giving is there the heart forgiving, not a question at all. What is lacking is that we don’t have the follow through. Oftentimes, there’s no estate plan in place when it comes to wills estate plans. People of color are even lower on that list as far as having a will in place.
Most Americans do not have an estate plan. And so you get to people of color, there were fewer of us with estate plans. So there’s an educational opportunity there for organizations. We as organizations need to do a better job of informing. We have a role to play in this. So there are a couple of events coming up national Let’s say playing awareness week is a really big opportunity for nonprofits to do something.
It’s the third week in October. It’s a week set aside by Congress since 2008 for educational and informational purposes around financial wellness and so organizations. This is a call. Do something community outreach of some sort. So I know you asked me a couple questions for you. I hope I answered them, but I’m very passionate about a state planning.
It literally ties right into plan giving. So yeah, we need to really jump on this and organizations. I really I put a charge out there where you to. Take that week in particular, not just that week, but there are many more opportunities to, to grab ahold and put some educational information out there to inform your supporters.
And you’ll probably see a huge benefit from doing so.
RHEA 19:21
Oh, wait. We’re going to have you come back at some later point and talk about planning and giving. I am in the middle of estate planning with my parents and my mother in law right now, so I know what you say is true, which is people don’t think about estate planning.
They like kick the can down the road and they’re like, okay, but we need to talk about this. All right, y’all on this call, I don’t know about you, but I didn’t, I wasn’t a little girl thinking, you know what I want to grow up to be when I grow up? I want to be in development. So I’m curious, both, like, how did you find your path to development?
And then B, what would be your advice to folks listening to the call who themselves are folks of color or women of color thinking about what does my career path look like? So let’s start with the origin story and then advice for the young people out there. First of all, I see you unmuted. Go ahead.
CHRISTAL CHERRY 20:09
Yeah, I fell into development.
I was working at American university in Washington, DC in the academics office and befriended a woman in the development team office. And she and I started talking and she asked me if that was something I’d be interested in. I didn’t even know what it was. I was like, what is development? I have no idea what that is.
And she told me it’s fundraising. I said, Oh, no, that’s not something that I’m interested in. I’m here to educate minds. I want to be a college president. So I thought that was my trajectory. And she continued to talk to me. She was in my ear and my actual interview for fundraising. It was on September 11th.
That should have been a sign, right? My interview into the entree of our fundraising was on September 11th. So needless to say, we had to reschedule that interview. But I fell up into it because she invited me to interview for the job. She kept telling me, you’re outgoing, you’re a good person. You can still work with students.
You can still work with alumni. This is a wonderful way to make sure that their education is, is there for them. So she talked me into it. So I tried it and I never looked back. And for those who are looking to get into it, I say, do your research. Talk to folks like us who have been doing it for a long time to really find out if it’s something for you, because it’s not for everyone.
It’s not for the lighthearted. They’ll, they’re going to be some difficult days ahead in fundraising and you got to be able to withstand it. Not to discourage anyone, but to know that, dealing with donors, dealing with bosses who’s often don’t get it dealing with board members, it’s tough.
RHEA 21:40
Yeah. I do trainings for folks and I often find, particularly with folks of color, when talking about fundraising, there’s a real reluctance to talk about money or like the relationship to wealth because, historically, let’s talk about, policies like redlining and predatory lending practices and the evils of capitalism.
There are reasons and traumas that have occurred as a result of capitalism and wealth in America and. And basically the job is you need to talk about money. So I’m curious Ninjia, Christal, Aquanetta, how have you been able to, let me not assume that you had stuff to work through, but have you seen this as something that fundraisers in general have to work through and, or fundraisers of color in particular have to work through?
NINJIA 22:33
Yeah, I would say from my own personal experience, it was something that I had to work through. I was one of the people who discovered very early on that I wanted to be in fundraising. So I knew by the time I graduated undergrad that this is what I was going to do and was on a trajectory of like, how do I get to that point?
But I know that there was a certain point where it was very uncomfortable to talk about asking for a gift as a certain amount. And it was like, Oh, that’s weird. Like, why would I ask them for that? What if they’re uncomfortable with that? And I think it was through some sort of like training that I experienced that, they brought that up that it’s you may be projecting your own feelings about money and maybe it would be something that would be uncomfortable for you.
But a donor, when you’re getting to that point, by the time that you are going to make the ask, they have one been very active in the conversation and they’re expecting it.
And then you’ve done your research and you’ve had the strategic conversation to understand how much it is, that you’re asking. So it’s not that big of a surprise. And so taking myself out of that. And really just, focusing on the donor and understanding that it shouldn’t be uncomfortable if I’ve done what I need to do on my end made me a lot more comfortable with it.
So that was, that’s how I’ve gotten past it. And then it’s also made me rethink what, things about money as well. And in addition to just preparation, just also my own like learning and understanding and undoing some of the thoughts that I had grown up, you know, experiencing.
RHEA 23:53
For sure. Like I talk about money mindset all the time and, my background coming from an Asian American community, it’s very taboo to talk about money, right? So I had to get over that to be like, If I want to be good at this job I have to really unpack my own stuff and my own cultural stuff about money and really the cultural stuff about philanthropy.
Because in the Asian community, we don’t talk about philanthropy. Like I think about philanthropy, capital P, like some white guy behind the desk, right? And I just hear a point, like we practice philanthropy all the time. We just don’t call it philanthropy. We call it helping out our family. We call it sending money back home.
We call it, giving my cousin a loan. Thank you for that. Crystal, let’s round it out with you. I’d love to know what was your journey to philanthropy and any advice that you’d give to young people who are curious, philanthropy curious, developing curious.
CHRISTAL CROSBY 24:45
Sure. I actually, my background, believe it or not, is in sports and athletics.
So I graduated from undergrad and college and started working for the professional baseball team here in Cleveland. And I was going like that career trajectory. So bounced around to several like D1 collegiate programs. And then I was at one and got that. I want to go work for a real nonprofit.
And did that for some time and then wanted to get back into higher education, but not necessarily athletics. And I think the great thing for me and my story is that like Just knowing those transferable skills. Like I know that I’m really great at building relationships with people. I have a, event planning background and all that good stuff.
So I started actually with. got back into collegiate athletics, into higher education working in alumni affairs, so working with the affinity programming. And that’s how like I kind of got into development and loving it. And now I’m in, I’m done relations and events. And so I think that people have to really just, Stop looking at what the job actually is and look at what skill set that you have that can enable you to be successful in a position so I’ve done like some fundraising and development work with my previous nonprofit organizations.
But like I said I was really good at talking to people I’m highly organized, and I’m really Very goal oriented. So these are some skills that I was able to transfer those things and I can event plan. That’s how I got into this work and into this field because I just wanted to be someplace where I just love being on a college campus.
So for me, that’s something that I was looking to do, but not necessarily the long hours of athletics.
RHEA 26:21
Got it. Got it. Got it. Ladies, thank you so much for being on the show. So Crystal Cherry, if folks are listening and they want to find out more about F3, like what is F3? How can they get involved?
What kind of support could they look to if they join F3?
CHRISTAL CHERRY 26:38
Yeah, no. I would first send them to our website, which is fabfemalefundraisers. org. And that pretty much outlines who we are. But yeah, we’re so much more than a professional network. A lot of us have become friends. We have a mentoring program where we’ve matched some of our seasoned professional fundraisers with our younger ones.
We become a giving Circle in May and we all nominated nonprofits and then we choose one and then we all pull our funds together and give back to that nonprofit that’s usually a nonprofit led by a woman of color. And then in the fall, we retreat and get together in November. We first week in November, we usually go somewhere in the mountains of Georgia or Tennessee.
And this year we’re going to Rhode Island and we get to get, we get to take off our shoes and see, Socks and just relax and sit by the fire and go hiking and all kinds of stuff. It’s just been amazing. And then and then in December we have an award ceremony where we honor three women who are doing amazing work in the nonprofit sector.
So it’s not just about us. And we, of course, we want to make sure that as fundraisers, we have the resources that we need for us to be successful, but we’re also about giving back. To the community for all the blessings that we had, the blessing that we have as a village and we can pull our resources and make a difference for other women.
And that’s what we do. So that female fundraisers. org is our website. We are accepting new members. We do cap at 75. We want to keep it fairly small because. I want to remember everyone’s birthdays, and I can if it’s 5, 000 people. Everyone gets birthday greetings from us, and we’re all, we have an active group me chat on Facebook or on LinkedIn, and we post resources, we post articles, we congratulate each other when we win something big or get a new job.
It’s just a wonderful network of support for women of color in the sector. So if you’re interested, please visit our website.
RHEA 28:25
Fantastic. We will make sure to put all the information in the show notes, but in the meantime, ladies, thank you so much for your time and for all you do and for supporting each other because the work is not easy.
I know we are out here trying to make it happen. So thank you so much.
CHRISTAL CHERRY 28:39
Thank you for having us, Rhea. This has been great. Thank you.
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