While the tides are changing for people of color in the corporate world, there’s this awkward space where pillars of the old system still stand ominous while the framework of a new system begins to take shape.
So where does that leave women of color in 2023? Do we gear up for an all-out war on the old system or don an every-woman-for-herself demeanor as we toss our fear aside and climb the corporate ladders to achieve our personal goals?
Perhaps we do a little of both?
Today’s guest is LaTresse Snead, author of When Black Women Rise, founder & CEO of Bonsai Leadership group, former ED, and fellow San Franciscan! LaTresse knows a thing or two about facing challenges and overcoming fear. LaTresse has worked for some of the biggest non-profit organizations in her 20-year career and helped raise more than two hundred million dollars in donations. These days, she pours her experience and knowledge into coaching leaders, upcoming leaders, and organizations in the non-profit space to become the best version of themselves.
Join us as we talk about:
- The state of DEI efforts in corporate America in 2023
- What it looks like to be a woman of color in leadership right now
- What corporations should or should not expect from people of color in regards to building their DEI strategy
- How to negotiate salary as a woman of color
- How to know if an organization is worth your time and energy
- The importance of surrounding yourself with a network of support
- And, of course, how to chase your dreams fearlessly
“I started out very fearful in my leadership of speaking out. … And I noticed that once I started to just authentically speak up … it was so much more impactful. … [P]eople start to respect that more.” -LaTresse Snead
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Important Links: https://www.linkedin.com/in/latressesnead/
https://www.bonsaileadershipgroup.com/
https://www.amazon.com/When-Black-Women-LaTresse-Snead/dp/B0C8RG5834
Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/nonprofitlowdown/support
Episode Transcript
RHEA 0:00
Welcome to Nonprofit Lowdown. I’m your host, Rhea Wong.
Hey podcast listeners, Rhea Wong with you once again with Nonprofit Lowdown.
So this must be Nonprofit Lowdown. Today my guest is LaTresse Snead. She is the author of With Black Women Rise, which is a new book. It just hit Amazon like a storm. She’s also the CEO of Bonsai Leadership Group. And today we are talking about both surviving and thriving as a Black leader.
LaTresse, welcome to the show.
LATRESSE 0:34
Oh, thank you for having me, Rhea. It’s great to be here. And I’ve had so much fun getting to know you in this process. So I know conversation today.
RHEA 0:43
Same here. Nonprofit executives turned authors. I feel like we have a little mini club going on here. Oh, by the way, I was like, LinkedIn stalking you.
And I realized that you went to San Francisco State.
LATRESSE 0:54
Yes, I did. What do you know about San Francisco State?
RHEA 0:57
I am a third generation native San Franciscan. Which are you are not very many of us.
LATRESSE 1:03
There aren’t very many of us. Yeah, I was born in San Francisco. Kaiser? No. San Francisco General, I believe.
RHEA 1:11
Ah, where’d you go to high school? Sorry, this is a side note.
LATRESSE 1:13
So I went to high school in Sacramento. Interesting. Yep, so we lived in Bayview, Hunters Point, until I was about five or six, and then we moved to Sacramento, California, and went to elementary, middle, and high school there, and then moved back to San Francisco.
RHEA 1:29
Got it, got it. Okay we have to have a whole other Bay Area conversation, too. By the way, I was recently back in California Sacramento’s really cool now. I don’t know if you knew that, but it’s It is! Yeah, it’s really cool. It used to have this cow town. reputation, but now it’s like all the cool kids are in SACTO.
LATRESSE 1:44
It’s scary how cool it was, but my brother and I went there for the first time in many years, right before COVID. And we had a blast. We had a blast.
RHEA 1:54
This is a sidebar conversation, but we’re going to talk about all the things.
I was like, that’s why I love her. Bay Area I love. Okay. All right. Let’s jump into a friend. Before you were an author, before you owned your own business, which also by the way, side note has been very successful a year out, which is incredible. You were in the nonprofit field. So talk to us a little bit about the journey that has brought you here today.
LATRESSE 2:15
I have been in the nonprofit space for over 20 years. So I’ve worked for some of the biggest nonprofit organizations including boys and girls clubs of America. Mothers Against Drunk Driving American Red Cross, The Nature Conservancy. I even did a stint on the for profit side leading a corporate philanthropy program supporting non profits and creating some of those brand non profit.
Kind of partnerships. So I have a lot of experience and oftentimes in these organizations I was one of a few black women in leadership, which has those challenges. But yes, as you mentioned today I am the founder and CEO of bonsai leadership group and. Just based on my experiences in the nonprofit space, I wanted to help other organizations create spaces for people to thrive.
Especially those that are poor people of color.
RHEA 3:10
Folks who listened to my last episode with Darren Isom, who’s a dear friend, and you’re so funny and so wise. We’ve talked about this phenomenon that we’ve been seeing, especially post George Floyd of organizations hiring folks of color, specifically, in many cases, Black women to lead.
And it is a hot ass mess in there. So can you talk a little bit about, is this something that you’ve noticed? And if so how do you help leaders who are so qualified and so committed and so passionate, but have just inherited a mess?
LATRESSE 3:40
Oh, yes, I have been through it myself. Right during kind of the social justice reckoning.
I remember just getting call after call from nonprofit organizations that were saying, Hey, we want to hire a an executive leader on our team. We want to talk to you. I was talking probably to about seven or eight different organizations at the time. That kept on saying they wanted leadership and they wanted to be a different organization.
And I kept asking the question why me? And what do you see in me? Going back to the skills there was one organization in particular that said all of the right things. And I said um, you know, I’m a different kind of leader. You’re going to get what you get with me. I don’t hold my tongue.
I tell it like it is. Oh, that’s what we want. That’s what we want. No, that is not what they wanted. They were not ready for it. But there are a lot of organizations and I’ve shared this before that want the black body, but they don’t want the black voice. So they want that person of color to show up so they can say they’re supporting, people of color and racial diversity, but at the end of the day, they either want you to clean up some kind of big mess with no budget.
And no decision making authority,
RHEA 4:59
For folks that are listening to this, particularly, young black folks who want to aspire into these executive roles. What are the red flags, if you will, of organizations that say the right things, but.
May not be doing the right thing. How might I be able to tell if I’m actively in a job search?
LATRESSE 5:18
One of the things that we actually tell our potential candidates at bonsai for different jobs are to ask a few questions. Of that organization. One are what are some of the challenges that you’re facing right now when it comes to diversity, equity and inclusion.
Hopefully they are very honest with you to say that there are some challenges. Here are the challenges that we’re facing. What are you doing to solve those challenges? So asking, we do eventually want you to be perfect, we know that it takes some time. I want to see that you’re taking action and that you are being serious. What have you done? What have people in your organization come to you about that you have taken action on?
demonstrate the same way you asked me about my experience and what I’ve done to achieve my goals. What have you done to achieve some of your goals? Give me some examples of how you supported leaders of color in your organization. So just as you would be interviewed by the organization, I encourage people to interview the organization as well.
RHEA 6:25
Do you recommend doing anything external? 1 thing I’ve heard folks say is look at the board, look at the staff it’ll tell you everything you need to know about how much they value diversity. What sort of other due diligence might you recommend for folks?
LATRESSE 6:38
think you could go even 1 step further and actually reach out to some of those people at those organizations. Yes, looking to see who’s in leadership who is on the board, reaching out to people you may know at that organization.
I have actually been contacted still to this day from people who are applying at organizations that I’ve worked at to say. You used to work there. Can you tell me a little bit more about what you experienced? How is it, what’s the culture like? And most times people will be very open with you.
You can also ask them, who else should I talk to? This is the same thing that recruiters do. You know when they’re doing professional reference checks, they talk to people in your circle, but they also ask, who else should I speak to so that I can have a better understanding of the type of environment .
RHEA 7:27
Okay, so let’s say you do your due diligence. It seems like, you’ve kicked the tires. It’s a challenge that you are willing to take on. I want to talk about one area that I know is particularly sensitive for, I think, women and women of color is negotiating the salary. I think historically we know that women get paid, what is it, 80 cents on the dollar and then 30 cents on the dollar for Black women. In this moment of time, I’m hoping that it’s a window that stays open, but it feels like it might be closing where Black women are really in the driver’s seat in some ways as far as negotiation between the pandemic and the great resignation and the desire to have Black leadership.
do you recommend that folks negotiate? their salaries or their compensation, I should say.
LATRESSE 8:11
The great thing is that a lot more organizations now are being very public about their salary ranges. So that helps. If you apply to a job or you’re called by a recruiter that is publicly sharing the salary range, to me, that’s a good sign that they care about salary, transparency, equity.
If they don’t share it, some people say should I even still apply if they’re not sharing a salary range? That’s up to you, but one of the things that you can do, especially when it’s an executive level position, I always use the 990. Go to the 990, see what the top employees are being paid. So if you’re applying also for a chief position, what are the other chiefs being paid?
But also take into consideration your value, your background, your experience. It’s okay to put that number that you want on the table. The worst that they can say is no, that doesn’t fit our range. Sometimes there are other things that you might care about that you want to negotiate. So let’s say they can’t meet your current salary.
Maybe it’s just short by a little bit. Maybe they’ll be willing to add additional vacation time. Maybe they will include a professional coach or executive coach for you additional professional development opportunities. So there are other things that you can negotiate besides just salary. Nowadays, a lot of people negotiate working from home or working from the location that they live in and not moving to the location of the headquarters of the organization.
So it’s not just the salary but there are other things that you can negotiate too.
RHEA 9:45
I think you said something that’s really important. I want people to really hear is understand your value, right? Because I think so often the value of women’s work and the value of women of color’s labor is undervalued.
And yet, and that’s why we under negotiate that. So we’re not paid where, what we’re worth. And so I think. So important to understand what is your value to the organization? What is the value you’re going to create? And therefore, what is the commensurate value that they should pay you in exchange for your contribution?
LATRESSE 10:17
If it doesn’t meet your expectations, it’s okay to say no.
RHEA 10:21
It’s like my mom used to say when I was dating there, there are lots of fish in the sea. Don’t worry about it.
LATRESSE 10:27
And then there’s one other tip that I would say, when you know that you’re the top candidate.
You are the one that they want. At that point in time, they’ll do anything to keep you because it’s hard to find top talent. It’s also hard for organizations to find that right person that will fill their needs. So when you get to that end of that process. Put the number that you want out there. If they want you bad enough, they’re likely to try and meet you.
RHEA 10:56
And I think the other point that you said, which was so important to is negotiate for an executive coach, because so often people are hired into these jobs. They’ve never been an ed before or a CEO before. So how are you supposed to know how to do it? And so I think when we think about setting people up for success, regardless of your racial background, I think you have to negotiate for a coach to support you along that way.
LATRESSE 11:19
You do, especially in these executive roles or even in times of transition, let’s say you’re going from a manager to a director position. I know I didn’t, when I was going from a manager to a director, I didn’t think that there was going to be any difference. Other than maybe I was going to have a few more responsibilities over the program strategy,
but there is a big difference and Executive coach can help you. Really step up into that role and transition from a manager to someone that is actually directing programs and teams and looking at the organization as a whole versus just your specific program or purpose.
RHEA 11:52
You said something earlier that when you were in these roles in nonprofits, you were often the only black leader. What do you think the biggest lessons learned were for you?
LATRESSE 12:02
One that I think a lot of people don’t think about is that it’s a lot of pressure, not only to be the only black leader a lot of times, or the highest ranking black leader in an organization not only being in a, in a. Community where there’s no one that looks like you.
But then you are that one person for so many other people in the organization. I remember being at one organization where a lot of other people of color constantly came to me, sharing. Their disappointments, their hurts, their struggles within the organization, but there was no one else for them to turn to in leadership to get that advice to understand how they should take the next course of action.
So there was a lot of pressure. On both sides of being, one of a few, or the only black leader I also encountered that, that constant, what would black people think,
RHEA 12:59
you’re like, on behalf of all black people everywhere, I would like to say.
LATRESSE 13:05
Yeah, I had a conversation with this woman.
I was like, you’re gonna have to ask all black people and she was just stunned and and so always trying to speak up and hold that balance of speaking up for community, but also getting people to understand that everybody is individual and they’re thinking and how they show up and what they want.
So it’s real hard balance.
RHEA 13:25
I know this is something I’ve heard a lot of my Black women friends say is trying to hold that tension between being assertive, having a voice, saying what you really mean and getting Lumped into the bucket of being the angry black woman.
LATRESSE 13:42
I started out very fearful in my leadership of speaking out because I didn’t want those labels. I didn’t want to be seen as angry. I didn’t want to be seen as inflexible. All those negative things that women. And especially women of color tend to think about when it comes to speaking up and using your voice in the workplace or disagreeing or having a different idea of how something should go.
And at some point, I don’t know what it was, I just said, you know what, that’s got to go out. It takes so much energy to filter myself, my thoughts, that I had to throw it out the window. And I noticed that once I started to just authentically speak up for myself, for my team, for my program, but in a way where people could hear and understand me, it was so much more impactful.
I felt good. And if they didn’t like it, that was their issue. That was their problem. But at the end of the day, it No one can say that I didn’t stand up for my team. I didn’t stand up for my program. I didn’t say what needed to be said when it needs to be said. Now, at the end of the day, you might agree with me and we might not move forward with my idea but always would tell people I’m not for everybody.
I’m just letting you know, not for everybody. But what I learned in using my voice more is that people start to respect that more. Yeah. And I had 1 supervisor in particular, and he said, you always say the hard things that I need to hear. And he said, and I haven’t always want to hear those things, but you say it in a way that really resonates with me and makes me look at your perspective.
In a way that is more open and I feel like you really care about, the organization or whatever we were discussing. So I think sometimes it’s just the care in which we say things. But sometimes it’s also just not having that fear around you either.
RHEA 15:43
So Latrice, I’m curious about, as a leader of color or as a Black leader, I think that there is this assumption, rightly or wrongly, that you’re going to come in with an agenda to, change DEI focused or more equity focused.
And I’m just wondering Is that is it a fair assumption that we can make for folks of color? And if not, or if so what does that process look like?
LATRESSE 16:07
It’s not a fair assumption. In fact, there are some people who they specifically want to go into organizations and they care about DEI and they want to.
Really focus on that, but for many people want to just do the job that they were hired for. And I have been tapped in many cases. Can you be on our DEI committee? Can you sponsor our DEI committee? Can you look at our DEI charter? We really need a DEI program. Can you do it? And I’m like, You need to hire somebody for that.
I don’t have the background. Just because I’m a black face does not mean I have the background, skills, or qualifications to create your DEI strategy. And so I think that’s shocking when people hear it. They’re oh, and so that has been my response to those questions I was asked 1 time.
Why aren’t you part of the and I was like, yeah, the play resource groups. I’m sorry for saying, but employee resource group and it’s I know what will happen. You will use that as. A way to say this is our D. E. I. Strategy and that’s not a D. E. I. Strategy. So hire someone that actually has the background and experience to lead those opportunities and then ask everyone to participate in supporting that strategy.
Ask everyone’s opinion on that strategy. Don’t just look to the black leader to make all the decisions on that or the person of color.
RHEA 17:38
Yeah, I mhm. I love that. And I think that needs to be, I think it’s changing, but certainly a couple of years ago, it was very much the default. You’re a person of color.
You know about diversity. It’s speaking on behalf of all the Asian people, but also capacity, hire people for whom this is their expertise. Like, why are we expecting people to know about stuff just because of their lived experience? It’s just, it’s a ridiculous thing.
LATRESSE 18:03
It is. And it still even happens today in my business. Nowhere on my website does it say I do diversity strategy or anything like that. I care deeply about racially diverse systems and organizations. But I don’t do DEI strategy. At least once a week, Rhea, I have people saying, Hey, can you come in and help us with our DEI strategy?
And it’s because I care. I might post about those things, but that doesn’t mean that I have the background for it.
RHEA 18:32
Yeah. It’s here that, so hopefully this podcast will help. Do not call Latrice for DEI strategy, y’all. She is not available for that.
LATRESSE 18:40
I can refer you to a lot of other people that can do that very well.
RHEA 18:44
That’s right. She has trusty colleagues, but do not call her for that. So let’s talk about, you did your due diligence. You got the job. You’re in the job. You’re doing the thing. How do we transition out when we decide there’s a new season for us in a way that. Is graceful and preserves your reputation as a professional.
Because I’ve seen some messy separations as you could imagine.
LATRESSE 19:05
I’ve been there. I’ve had all kinds. I think the best way is to, of course, give your notice. And this is once you decide that you no longer want to be somewhere, this is not the time to say this is why, and this is what went wrong.
You had your chance to say those things and hopefully those things people listen and if they didn’t at that time you’re moving on to something else or to a place where that values your voice where you’ll be able to use your talent. But leaving out the door is not the time to air all of your grievances
it’s the time to just focus on the future so give me an appropriate notice. I’m a big fan if you’re in an executive or leadership level of giving a month’s notice just because there’s a lot of transition that you have to do not only with your team has to get used to the idea of this person is not going to be there, so what does that mean for me, but then all of your projects, so that’s the most graceful way to lead.
But I will also say, Rhea, if it’s a situation that’s causing, a impact on your mental health, I’m good with just throwing up two deuces and saying, you know what, I’m not going to allow myself to be in this space anymore or to be treated this way anymore, and effective immediately, I’m leaving the organization.
RHEA 20:30
So let’s dig into that. Like, how do you know when it’s time to go? Because I do think when you’re being harmed, when it’s detrimental to your mental health and so forth. And I would also say sometimes just being in the ED role is detrimental to your mental health. So whether it’s racial or not, it’s it’s a heavy load to carry.
So in your experience, what are the indicators that it’s time to move on?
LATRESSE 20:52
That’s a, that’s a hard question because I think it’s different for everyone, right? For me in my last nonprofit career, I knew it wasn’t for me anymore when I realized that my values and the values of the leadership were not in alignment.
And now knowing that if I’m in executive leadership, I represent the decisions that are being made about the organization, I have to explain this to my team. And, just certain conversations I was going, I can’t be in line with this, I don’t agree with this conversation I don’t agree with that statement.
And I wanted to be associated with an organization. Or a movement that really aligned with my leadership behaviors expectations, values, organizational kind of environment. And so for me, it was an immediate I can’t take this.
RHEA 21:54
So it sounds like though, they.
There’s a level of self reflection and maturity to be able to really even know what your values are or what you’re looking for. How did you get to that point? Did you have a coach? Did you do some personal work? Like how? How do you get to the place of understanding a what your values are and be whether or not these values are aligned with your organization.
LATRESSE 22:16
So there was 2 things. So even before that self reflection. Years ago, I was in a position where I felt like I was in that toxic type of culture. And I felt like I couldn’t quit because I had, a family we had, you thinking about the bills and it’s okay, how long is it going to take to get another job?
And we all know how hard it is to look for a job while you have another job. And, when you’re just emotionally exhausted, it’s just so stressful. And someone told me they were like, this is why you have your F you money lined up. So that at any time you think this is no longer for me, you can leave and you will have a buffer to carry you until you find that next thing.
So once I heard that I certainly put that into place. So I always had that in that letter. go of a lot of fear for me in any of these situations. It’s I didn’t have to fear speaking up. I didn’t have to fear if, okay, they’re not going to like what I say and they’re going to let me go because I have, I know I have my little nest egg to fall back on.
And Anything that I feel doesn’t align with my values or doesn’t feel good. I can make a decision for me and I don’t have to wait for others to change or do something different. So that was the 1st part is just making sure that I was going to be financially secure and I could confidently make any decision that I need to make.
next part of that self reflection was what kind of leader do I want to be? And I’m the type of person that I am a leader for my team. I am like the team mama bear champion. I’m going to influence as much as possible throughout the organization, not only to make the right decisions, but, to get the resources needed for my team to help them thrive and be successful.
And when I feel like I can’t do that. I can’t continue to go to my team and say you can’t do that. We can’t do that. We can’t do that. It’s like the constant disappointment. And so if I’m not effective as a leader in that particular environment, because of the way is structured. Yeah, I just felt like it’s time because this person, this organization wants to lead in the way that they want to lead and it’s out of alignment in what I think needs to happen in order for us all to be successful.
RHEA 24:51
One thing that I noticed for myself in being an executive director is it felt like. There were a lot of unsaid expectations that my staff had of me to. essentially be the mama bear, to be the therapist, to be the confidant.
And and I was really taken aback by it because I was like, my job is I am your boss. I am here to help you do your job, to get you the resources. But I don’t know if it felt like there was this expectation because I was a woman, perhaps, I don’t know. Of being this like maternal figure I guess I’m just wondering is that something that you’ve witnessed with women leaders?
Cause no one is expecting like their male CEO to be like their dad figure. You know what I mean?
LATRESSE 25:35
I remember when one of the very first teams I led and I was so confused at what was happening because it seemed each week I had people in my office crying. And it wasn’t anything about the job.
It was just like my boyfriend left me or I didn’t have money for gas this morning. And I’m just like. What is happening right now? And so I’ve learned over time, refer people to resources that can help them. There’s the employee assistance program, or maybe you need to talk to someone outside of the organization, who do you have in your network that you may talk, so referring them back, especially when it’s a personal situation.
To something that’s personal that can help them. When I was referring to Mama Bear, I’m talking about protecting my team in terms of achieving our goals, getting the resources that we need, anything that they need to be successful, I’m going to fight for. But yeah, I always say, great. Do you need to take some time off?
Do you need some FMLA? I’m very supportive in that way. But and we all want to be empathetic too, but to a certain point. And it’s hard as a leader because people do see you once you start to be that empathetic person, they want to come to you for every day. A lot of time.
RHEA 26:55
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So I’m like, why am I in a conversation with you about your boyfriend?
I really don’t. This is not why I’m being paid. Let’s talk about your book and you know what, shout out to our friend, Isabella Masucci. She helped me with my book and was my former student. I know she helped you out with your book, but talk to me a little bit about who’s it for?
LATRESSE 27:19
I love Isabella.
We talked a little bit about coaching there are. coaches for everything. There are life coaches, there are executive coaches, there are business coaches. And Isabella Mascucci is like the best book coach you can have. She will help you with your storytelling.
She will help you define what the purpose of the book and who the book is for. I would not have this book if it wasn’t for her.
RHEA 27:46
Samesies is Isabella Masucci. So I’ve known Isabella since she was 12 years old in my program. And I could not a little like advertising, but she has just turned into such an incredible human.
And I’m so proud of her. And she’s now built this business to help. Folks like you and me get our big ideas out into the world. So shout out to Bella and anyone who’s listening who wants to write a book, call Bella. I’ll put her info in the show notes. You need this woman to help.
LATRESSE 28:12
So you really do need this woman.
When I came to her, one of the reasons why I even decided to read a book, I was actually working with a business coach and the business coach said you’re only one person. You can only coach so many people before you can’t coach. Anybody else, right? And so how do you make number one, your services accessible to people for people that can’t maybe they can’t afford a coach.
Maybe they just don’t have access to you. Whatever the reason, how do you make what you’re doing accessible to people? And he said a book could be one of those ways. And so I was introduced to Bella. And so Bella said why do you want to write this book? And I was like, I want to write a book about leadership.
I want to infuse coaching. And I said, but at the same time, I’m no leadership expert. Everybody I am not a leadership expert. But I have learned some things along the way from my coaching. experiences, my failures. And I said, I just want to share that with people because people might be struggling with some of the same things.
A lot of times during coaching, people ask me how did you deal with this? Or what would you have done? And that’s not coaching. That is absolutely not coaching. And so this was a way to just share my experiences, my failures. And some of the themes that I talk about, imposter syndrome, microaggressions taking two steps back to go four steps forward.
All of these things are things that I know other people are experiencing. And so I just wanted to put that out there to just share my leadership journey, but we also include some self coaching and reflection exercises in the book so that people can also define what that journey or explore what they might need next in their leadership journey.
RHEA 30:06
It’s so funny as you’re talking, it’s like thinking about the book that I wrote as well, and essentially we’re just writing for our younger selves, are we not? I wrote the book for the little baby Edie who had no idea how to fundraise, what to do. I was clueless and yet, through the experience of having gone through it, I’m like, Can I just save all of the little baby Rhea’s years and years of trial and error and like pain and suffering?
Here, just read the book.
LATRESSE 30:32
And it’s interesting because when you say who is the book for? So initially I was thinking Black women in the nonprofit space, right? But as the book goes, people pick it up and they read it. And I got a a text message from a friend. She’s a white woman, and she was at the store with her daughter.
And she sent me this poem that her daughter had written about fear. And she said, Oh gosh, I’m going to get teary eyed because she said she was in her car and she said, my daughter went into the store by herself for the first time. And she’s because she said F fear. And it was after she had read the fourth, about the fourth chapter in your book.
And she was like, I can do this on my own. I’m going to do it. And so for her as a mother, she was just like, Oh my gosh, I’m seeing my daughter grow and overcome her fears. This is something that I’ve always told her to do. Like you can do it. And then and she wouldn’t do it because she was so scared of what other people would think, or she was awkward or whatever it may be.
And then, so her as a mother, she was just like, thank you. She was like, I didn’t know how your book was going to touch her. And this is it. Much bigger than I could have ever imagined. So when you say who is the book for, it’s really for everybody.
RHEA 31:53
I love it. And it’s so funny with books.
It’s you just don’t know where it’s going to end up, right? You don’t know the impact that it’s going to make. But on that point, with your books, when Black women rise, what are you hoping that people will get out of it? Once you read the book. What’s the transformational experience?
LATRESSE 32:10
I hope that people really understand the power of a couple of things. Number one, overcoming your fear. And just doing you like if you got to be you because it’s too hard to be somebody else is, and people are going to talk about you anyway so just go ahead and just be you I think I took too long to get to that point in my life.
And so I’m hoping that people realize that a lot sooner. number two I want people to understand the power of coaching and having a network around you to give you. Thank you. Other perspectives for you to, share some of your disappointments, your failures to brainstorm with you is incredibly helpful to have a small group of trusted, whether it’s colleagues, a coach or friend that you can depend on to say, No, you’re not wrong.
No, you’re not in your head. You are awesome. You can do that. That will encourage you to really be who you truly are and to have that confidence.
RHEA 33:10
It’s funny as you’re talking too, because I think this is really the power of coaching, which is we get out of our own sort of loops that we create in our heads and narratives.
I was recently working on a presentation I’m going to give next week and I was reading this psychotherapist book and she says the three main lies that we tell ourselves are I’m not good enough. I’m different. Therefore, I don’t belong. And what I want is not available to me. And so when you play these things on loop in your mind, it manifests itself in a, not really getting what you want, right?
Cause you’re just in this place. And I think women of color are more susceptible to these sorts of lives. Would you agree with that?
LATRESSE 33:53
Absolutely. All three of them. And I think that from my very first coaching experience, That was one of the things that my coach helped me with is getting out of those loops.
And she was very good at listening to stories of success or times when I felt the most confident or when I was really successful in whatever it was I was trying to do. And those moments when I was I don’t know how to do this or they’re not going to choose me. And she was like, wait a second, let’s go back to the time you told me about this.
You did it then. And she was just really helpful in maintaining my confidence and making sure that I remembered, I actually do know how to do this stuff. I’ve done it before. What do I need to do again? And what’s the worst that can happen? So always having that network around you that can bring you back to reality when you’re that negative self-talk starts to hit you.
RHEA 34:51
Yeah. And you know, the thing is it’s so easy to get into catastrophizing, especially I think I’ll speak for myself as like a Chinese American in my family, that the lingua franca is like catastrophizing, like all the things that could go wrong, all of the ways that like, this could be dangerous.
So of course, like in my loop, I’m like, Oh yeah. That feels like a very familiar story to tell myself.
LATRESSE 35:15
Yeah. And see, so in my book, I actually talk about what can go right. So I think we all do that. We all say, okay, let’s talk about the risk. So what could go wrong in this idea? I’m not going to leave my job because I won’t get a check every two weeks.
I won’t have health insurance. You just start thinking of all the things that could go wrong. But what could go right? What if when I started my business, if I just focus on all the things that could have gone wrong, I wouldn’t be here talking to you right now. I wouldn’t because I would have taught myself out of it and I would take and, apply for the first next job.
And but instead, I thought, here are all the things that could potentially go right if I put my time and effort into it, any challenges that I might face. We’ll face someone and get to it, but I’m going to focus on what could go right.
RHEA 36:04
Yeah, I love that. I have the same thing when I started my business, right?
I went through all of the worst case scenarios. I’m going to end up at the side of a river and a cardboard box with a bunch of cats eating my face. It went to crazy town. But then I was like, but what could go right? And now, being business owners, I’m like, I’m a free bird. I’m never going back.
so never girl. I know. Listen, you and I both listen. You and I are gonna have another conversation about being women who own their own businesses and make money. That’s what I wanna talk about next. The other thing is I think as women of color, we’re taught that we shouldn’t talk about money. Like we’re so conditioned to say, I’ll take the crumbs and that’ll be good enough.
I’m out here trying to be like, no, I want to make a lot of money.
LATRESSE 36:47
I’m the same way. And I’ll never forget because growing up, I made more money than my parents did even with my very first job. And it was like, Oh, my gosh, that’s great money. You’re doing so well, you’re so successful.
It was like 50, 000 or something like that. Yeah. Okay, great. Unless I started making over six figures. It was like, you should never leave that job. That’s a good job. Don’t right.
No. But then you’re you get into that space of fear. Oh, yeah, it is a good job. I probably shouldn’t because this is good money or whatever.
So there comes that fear again around money, but it’s wait a second. I still make this for more. And still be happy and have what I need. And so it’s that whole money thing. It just, it. I feel in the Black community, too.
RHEA 37:39
Oh, one hundred and ten percent, right? It’s almost crabs in a barrel.
We can’t imagine a world where you could just make all of the money that you possibly want. So we’re like, oh, but… To be safe, you have to just be content with just enough, right? If it’s a six figure job, you better hold on to it. I remember when I started my consulting business, my mom, I was home and she like slid a check across the table to me.
And I was like, what is this? She’s I’m just worried. I’m just worried you’re not going to be able to pay your rent. I was like, mom, I’m fine. It’s cute. Thank you. But I’m doing good. I’m okay. Yeah, I’m okay. But I, anyway, we’re going to have another conversation about. women of color making money.
Latresa, thank you so much for everything that you do. Thank you for this beautiful book. Folks out there, whether you’re a black woman or not, go out, buy it. Reviewed on Amazon when black women rise, Latrice, thank you so much for being on the show.
LATRESSE 38:31
Oh, thank you, Rhea. It was wonderful to be here. I love being in conversation with you.
RHEA 38:36
Same here. So folks, if you like this conversation, feel free to give me a positive review on Apple podcasts or wherever you listen and check out my newsletter at RheaWong. com.
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