Feeling jittery about making that fundraising call?
You’re not alone. Many fear the dreaded hang-up when reaching out to potential donors. But imagine turning calls from cold to gold, sparking genuine connections that open doors to vital funds.
This week, I chat with the remarkable Kel Haney about turning dreaded fundraising calls into thrilling opportunities for growth.
Kel brings a unique perspective from her vibrant past as a theater director, turning every fundraising call into a compelling story with a happy ending. With over $6 million raised through engaging conversations, Kel’s approach debunks our deepest fears about the dreaded “ask.”
Want to learn how you can harness the power of storytelling and genuine connection to make fundraising calls less about asking for money and more about forging meaningful relationships?
Tune into this insightful episode to unleash the power of the 5-minute ask in your own campaigns.
Important links:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kel-haney-15a24a10
Episode Transcript
RHEA 00:00
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Welcome to Nonprofit Lowdown, I’m your host, Rhea Wong.
Hey folks. So here I am in Toronto, Canada at the AFP icon. And I’m taking the opportunity to sit and chat with my friend Kel Haney of Kel Haney consulting. And we’re going to talk about the five minute fundraising ask. So you might hear some ambient background noise.
That is just the hubbub and the excitement of AFP icon. But Kel, welcome to the show.
KEL 01:01
I’m so excited to be doing this with you right now. Folks, we are like actually in the corner of the hallway together. And I feel like I’m in summer camp right now with a friend that I don’t get to see that often.
RHEA 01:12
So before we jump into the things because you are a genius when it comes to the ask And I think you and I were talking yesterday about look You don’t ask you don’t get and you’re magical because you are unafraid of the ask But before we jump into all of that, I would love to hear the origin story because I know it’s really unique How did you Kel Haney get into the fundraising space?
KEL 01:35
Great question. So I was a theater director for 20 years, and it’s going to come to no surprise to you all in the social impact sector. But theater directors, particularly when they’re starting out, don’t make much money. So I started to work for the organization that I thought I wanted to run someday. It was a theater called Manhattan Theater Club.
So those of you who are in the states in New York City, you know it. I And it was just really amazing because I just started to call the people who are coming to see the shows. And I raised over 6 million in less than eight years, all in donations under 2000. And I didn’t have a background in sales. I didn’t have a background in fundraising, but.
I was really passionate about what I was doing. So I have since reverse engineered why that was so successful for me to make that work for other people. And I use my theater background. You can take the kid out of theater, but not the theater out of the kid. So I use my theater background in everything that I do.
And so it’s really about figuring out which like what we each have is like a very unique superpower. And I really work off of that.
RHEA 02:37
Okay. There’s so much to unpack here. What is your superpower? Because I think, you have many superpowers, as I can tell, anyone who knows you can tell. so the challenge, sorry, let me back up for folks who don’t know.
You specialize in doing phone asks. Like cold calling phone asks. I would Probably rather stick hot needles in my eye than do it and I am not afraid of fundraising. So What is it about you? What’s your superpower that allows you to not only master this skill, but teach other people how to do it
KEL 03:08
I think it’s that I try to really lead with vulnerability and everything I do and like I want to be really clear I think that comes with My privilege, I am like a cishet white woman who grew up very middle class.
So that’s part of it, I’m sure. But I really lead from a place of vulnerability and also curiosity of everyone that I’m talking to. And so it really is about like, how can I get to know this person in front of me? Go deep with this person, whomever they are and whatever circumstance, even if I’m at Trader Joe’s and I’m, and whomever is here.
checking me out of Trader Joe’s. I’m excited to get to know that person for that 45 seconds. So it’s really about curiosity and vulnerability.
RHEA 03:43
I love that because as fundraisers, I always say Hey, are you that person who people like gravitate to who people ask for directions that you find out their life story in 30 seconds?
And you’re like, girl, listen, here’s what I think you need to do with your life. Like I am that person. I’m like, tell me all the things, right? Okay, I want to get Deep into this. How did you Hit upon the five minute fundraising ask because it’s so hard Especially in this day and age where people aren’t answering their phones like if I get a random cold Call like I’m like click and we have all these robo blockers now.
So yeah, I don’t know what’s the question. The question is like, how does one even start to begin with this?
KEL 04:23
I will say I had all those same questions that you have and when I started doing this now almost 20 years ago, I did not think that we would all still be using cell phones in 2024. But guess what?
We are as of now until we’re all holograms like that. We re and I just saw this kind of crazy hologram when we were in the convention room anyway. it’s amazing. We all have these cell phones. We’re going to keep them and I don’t know about you all, but I like to use the phone, so I’m a focus group of one as far as that’s concerned, but everyone has to talk to a doctor or a lawyer or wants to get on the phone with someone in your family or you want to be walking your dog and being on the phone.
So it’s not going away. And so what I find is that it’s not, yes, I guess they’re technically cold calls, but I wouldn’t recommend just like picking up the phone book or being like, oh, who are the people who have the capacity in my area, the way these. phone calls work really well, and that’s why I focus specifically on mid level donors.
So people who are already connected to your organization. So community members who’ve donated in the past or even recently, that’s fine. Or if you’ve got like a performance based organization or just even any kind of experiential component or really grassroots component work really well because you’ve got some connective tissue that you can just build upon immediately.
RHEA 05:34
Okay, so I’m just gonna play devil’s advocate because I do get Cold calls and literally when I pick it up, first of all, if I don’t recognize the number, I don’t pick it up, but say someone slips through the cracks and I pick it up because the number looks like maybe a number that’s close ish to what I would pick up.
When I hear, Hey, how are you doing today? I’m like, Oh, no, I click. We’re done. I was like, take me off the list. So very tactically, how do you avoid getting? And look, I don’t know. You’re going to get hung up on, but how do you increase the likelihood that you won’t get hung up on here?
KEL 06:06
It’s a great question. I hear it all the time. So the way I train is basically, I think about a phone call, a five minute fundraising ask as a tent.
And not the kind that you sleep in, but like the kind that you have for a reunion, or for graduation, or in my case, when I got married on a small island off the coast of Portland, Maine. And so what holds up a tent, but tent poles. So I have four tent poles that are like truly the foundation of these calls.
And the first. is how to handle the first 15 seconds. Because, yes, exactly to what you said. There are robocalls, there are telemarketers, there are scammers. So the idea being to really firmly craft that first 15 seconds and really front end what you’re saying. So I would call you and say, Hi Rhea, my name’s Kel, I’m calling you from Organization X, thank you so much for that gift you made back in December.
We really appreciate that we actually surpassed our goal, so thank you for that. And just wanted to check in, See if you knew about the event that we’re doing next week. We actually still have some space. Do you know about that event happening? We’d love to have you. Oh, that’s so good. So ending that first 15 seconds, it’s there’s a lot specifically going on there.
It’s who you are as the person calling from your org, what you do at the org, also reminding them of your organization. They may not remember that. 500 donation. They might not even remember. So to remind them of that and then have some kind of really curious question that you’re ending the last 15 seconds.
And the important thing is to remember that being on the phone is very different in person. So like you can really disarm somebody with a lot of information up front and they might not get it all at first, but they’re like, Oh, I’m talking to a human being, talking to a human being who works with an org that I’m already associated with and a human being who seems to have a sense of what my connection is.
Okay, I’ll settle down and like potentially talk to them.
RHEA 07:47
Okay, what are the three other temples and so and then I have a question about Voice tone because I anyway, but what are the three other temples?
KEL 07:55
Yeah, so then number two is the main event So this is a moment when you’re calling the community member further into your organization So you’re gonna tell them about some things that are happening so that can be events that they could participate in.
I like to share wins, things that are happening. I like to be really transparent if there is transition at the org. I think we as not for profits need to talk more about just how much turnover there is and why, and that we can celebrate our colleagues that are leaving and intro the colleagues that are coming.
And then the last one is you’re gonna share what you’re doing on your fundraiser. We’re all fundraising at all times. So whether that is you’re kicking off your spring campaign, you’re in a slower moment, but you’re fundraising for something really specific. You’re going to talk about where you are in the campaign.
So even before you get to an ask, you’re just going to share it as Hey, let’s normalize the fact that as not for profits, we’re always fundraising. And that’s just another tidbit to share when we’re giving an update.
RHEA 08:46
And then, is the fourth the solicitation?
KEL 08:48
Yeah yes. The third is the ask.
Yeah. And the way that, if you’re already talking about what’s happening in the fundraiser right now, is there’s never that awkward moment to pivot. It’s all connected. So it’s like, when I’m training someone, they’re able to very easily, seamlessly go into that ask, without even thinking, oh gosh, this is the moment.
There should never be, like, an awkward pivot. It should be really quick. Natural within the conversation. So that’s three. And then four is the wrap up. And so that’s like sharing gratitude Whether or not that person donates or not They gave you your time and you want to have a better Relationship than you started with them and it’s really important to tell them when they’re gonna hear from your organization next.
RHEA 09:27
when you’re doing a solicitation, are you asking for a specific amount? Like, how do you frame it up?
KEL 09:35
Yeah, I think that having a specific numerical ask is always really important. So that’s going to be really based on whatever donor research you have, whatever their history has been, whatever, quote unquote, your anchor ask is, and your mid level donor level is like your entry level, mid level donor level is important.
So yeah. There’s always like a specific numerical ask.
RHEA 09:55
So what’s the hit rate here? So if you have, this isn’t a cold list, right? These are people who have donated. But we know that first time donations are hard to come by, right? I think the retention rate for a first time donor is 18%. What are we looking at here?
KEL 10:10
Wild. So everything that I do is really bespoke and so I’m saying like a five minute ask, sometimes that’s a voicemail that takes 90 seconds and sometimes you get that chatty donor that you know is going to be on the phone with you for 15 minutes. So I say on average it’s five minutes.
And what I’m looking at, not so much about what happens on each call, because to me it’s about the forest of building a stronger relationship with the donor, with the community member, than the tree of what happens on that call. So what I’m looking at larger is like the larger return on investment. So what I’m seeing in terms of, if an org is bringing on me and my services I’m seeing that like it needs to be at the very least like a 200 percent return on investment.
But what I’m seeing like on average is closer to 350 or higher. And some of it we’re just not told, I’m not totally tracking right now of like obviously somebody could come in as a second time donor. I see it all the time that then moves up in the organization in terms of how much they’re donating.
And I’ve watched people become even board members off of originally being on a phone call.
RHEA 11:08
That’s so interesting. And so when you’re doing the phone call, are you also pairing it with other strategies like a text strategy or a social media strategy? Because we know that people are so inundated with information that like one phone call may not be the conversion mechanism.
KEL 11:23
you’re totally right. What I say whenever I’m talking to somebody about potentially getting involved with making phone calls, I say this is not a silver bullet. This is going to work in tandem with the rest of your communication strategy. So it’s really important that. It’s not just embedded within the advancement and within the development department, but also in the marketing department.
Also, potentially if there’s a member services or audience services that all of these departments are working in tandem with one another is really important. So it’s good to say oh, did you see what we’ve got on social media right now? Did you look at the email? Something that works really well if somebody needs some more time is saying, oh, I’ll shoot you a quick video.
Email as well and also make a time to follow up with them on the phone call. Or if you can’t get somebody on the phone, leaving them a voicemail, it’s fascinating how many people actually follow the directive if they already have a relationship from a voicemail. And part of it is like on the voicemail saying all the things that basically you do in the ask.
Plus saying, I’ll also send this to you in an email. And especially in high fundraising volume moments. People respond. It’s usually via just donating online themselves or a quick email, but that conversion rate is really high.
RHEA 12:30
Wow
KEL 12:30
that’s fascinating because I never check my voicemail. So I’m probably not a great case study for this.
No, but it’s, everybody’s a focus group of one. When I’m speaking, I’ll have one person say, I never pick up my phone, but I always check my email. Someone else is I don’t do any of that. Someone says, just text me. Someone else says, never text me. We’re all a, it’s just a one size fits one.
And this is just one other way to be communicating. And that voice to voice. I just. It really builds relationship really quickly.
RHEA 12:58
And do you find generational differences? I, I’m going to make some broad statements here, but I would assume that boomers, for example, pick up the phone more regularly than Gen Z.
Is that bearing out in what you’re saying?
KEL 13:12
In terms of the pickup rate it is but I can’t tell you how many people say on these calls I never pick up these calls. I never take this kind of call quote unquote But that once you’ve got that person on the phone that they do respond or they see that Oh, I’m calling from that particular organization.
I’ve got a connection there also once an organization embeds You know, I call this outbound fundraising when somebody embeds that into their communication cadence Then your donors start to expect it and actually enjoy it. So oh, I’m talking to an enthusiastic charming very curious and very knowledgeable human who is also passionate about this org.
So they actually start to look forward to getting these calls. Interesting.
RHEA 13:56
So I want to talk about the individuals that you help train because I love that you’re leading with curiosity. What little I’ve done in the performance space, I know that we communicate so much with our tone of voice. So how are you training people with the tone of voice?
Cause I, if I’m not getting a visual, I can’t read your body language. I can tell if you’re reading off of a script, right? So what do you do to help prepare people who may not have a fundraising background or a performance background? Or maybe you just get a bunch of like unemployed actors to do this.
KEL 14:24
I will say I do work with a lot of actors.
I work with a lot of artists because they can use a little bit of extra income and a little bit more flexibility. And I love the idea of empowering artists and that like they can use their skills in other ways. And that’s what I do. where I came up and my husband is an actor and a grant strategist and writer.
So I love that. It really is about figuring out what makes each person unique. Like I said earlier, I don’t use a script. It’s all about follow these tent poles. And there are particular moments that if people feel comfortable, they can script for themselves, but then it really needs to sound extemporaneous.
It has to really sound as if somebody is just talking to you. If it’s too slick, it doesn’t work. And so I’m like, you need to show the script. You need to really make it feel present. And that’s the hardest thing I think is just not going on autopilot. And so part of my training is that then I spend time coaching once they’re actually on these calls, we do it in a zoom room so I can actually hear them on the calls.
And so So we can in real time give some coaching off of what’s happening, which is really wild. So I don’t get really into the technical. It’s really important right now. Anybody that I’m training, all the orgs is I meet with those people and I actually interview them personally still at this point in my business.
And so I’m looking for people that just have that gift of gab, that there’s something interesting in their voice, that there is like a live wiredness to their voice in some way. So I’m looking for that. So I’m not like specifically training and yes, I think I intuitively do some tone matching with different people that I’m talking to, but I don’t get that technical or that psychological in terms of performance aspect of this.
RHEA 16:06
It’s so interesting, because I think voice is such an interesting thing, and so in my business, when people apply to my program, I do interview them, and I’m looking for that sort of intangible you may not know, quote unquote, how to fundraise, but if, I feel like I have good raw material to work with, because it’s a people business, and if people don’t like you, they’re not going to give you money.
I have to want to enjoy and be like, Oh, Kel’s calling me. I’m like, Oh God, Kel’s calling me. There’s an itch. And I hate to say it, but people don’t have the personalities that are cut out for fundraising.
KEL 16:34
No, they don’t. And that’s okay. This isn’t for everybody. And I also say, even if I think someone may have the raw materials.
We don’t know until they’re actually doing it. Some people really come alive. I also think there’s two different kinds of actors in the world. There’s the people who what they, how they want to present themselves in the rest of the world. That’s socially acceptable when they’re on stage. And then there’s other people, like my sweet husband, that something else comes alive in them when they’re on stage.
I don’t Totally know whether or not someone is going to be good at this until they try it. And some people, they really, it just like sticks to them really quickly and they love it. And then other people are like, you can’t do this, but you need to try it to learn. And there’s also, I will say if you’re working internally at a not for profit, there’s different levels of comfort.
It’s like part of it is like, getting people comfortable with making a thank you call. And then part of it is if they’re making renewal calls and that person says, Ria, I love your organization, but this year we’re gonna prioritize traveling over donating instead of saying, okay, thanks for letting me know by understanding that is so icky instead of say, oh, Good for you.
Where are you going? keeping that conversation open. Somebody who’s really skilled can circle back and keep that ask alive in that moment and potentially get a donation in that moment. But even if that person isn’t there in their journey, just to leave the door open for later. Again, it’s all about the long game, the long term relationship building.
RHEA 17:59
So many questions here. Knowing that we have a high turnover business, knowing that you’re maybe hiring people who are seasonal, how do you effectively steward the relationship? If it’s like different people calling me at different points, I’m assuming like donor notes are important here. Maybe recordings are important.
KEL 18:19
Like, how do you keep the continuity
[00:18:19] Kel Haney: going? donor notes. Being in the CRM about every call and it doesn’t have to be, oh, this person did or didn’t pick up. But you learn such amazing things. You work for a ballet and you find out, oh, my goodness, that person’s grandmother was a famous ballet dancer.
We never knew. Or, oh, that person is really interested in this. Summer camp going with that we started, but oh, that they’ve got a grandchild that’s now close at age to being able to be there. So we learn a lot of qualitative research, things that are going to be useful moving forward. I will say that actually I’m really proud to say that in terms of people who are being hired specifically to do this work, the turnover rate’s actually very low because I work really hard in the teams that I hire and the managers who run these rooms.
They work really hard to build relationships. And I always say that I care, first and foremost, about everyone who is making these calls as humans first. If they’re also artists, I say, as artists second and fundraisers third. The idea of being fundraisers always comes second to the humanity.
And even if they’ve got some other, this is their supplemental income job, I’m always really clear that comes first. And that actually builds. loyalty and some real long term relationships. So I have a couple fundraisers. My friend and colleague, Molly Thomas, who’s been doing this with me for 15 years.
And she’s super successful. And she’s got a four and a half year old at home. And this was her first job back after having him. And she’s amazing. I have these long term relationships with people as well.
RHEA 19:46
So how do you help people get over their fear of rejection? Cause I imagine that there’s a very high rate of like hangups or okay, I don’t want to talk to you or thank you for calling click.
And I think that fear of rejection really holds a lot of us back in fundraising and life perhaps. Maybe it helps that you have actors who maybe are used to the auditions, rejections. But like, how do you help people get over that psychological hurdle of Ugh, I hate being rejected.
KEL 20:09
Yeah, so many ways work on getting over that idea of rejection.
One thing I say is I think therapy is important for all of us. So I am like always working on my own personal reactions and why and curiosity about working through my own mindsets. It’s both like money and rejection but I would say, yes, working with artists helps a heck of a lot with that. But I also say, remember that it’s not about you, like it’s not personal.
And that is hard because I encourage people to be as personal as possible on the call. But I also say don’t hold on too tightly to what happens in the moment. Be personal and know that your job is being done. Ultimately, to build a stronger relationship with this community member, not what happens on the call.
What I have found in my almost 20 years of doing this, Rhea, is that the money always follows. If we’re really focused on building relationships, like The money will follow. So I’m never holding on too tightly to the result of what happens in that moment. And there’s lots of different tactics of like how to keep that person on the phone and how to figure out if there’s a way to do it today.
But it’s not about us. And also they don’t owe us anything. We’re calling them. They’re not expecting to hear from us. Like they don’t owe us anything ever. And so everything is a gift. Picking up the call is the gift. Staying on the call is the gift. There’s actually a donation in the moment.
Obviously also a gift, but the whole idea is about relationship building.
RHEA 21:31
That’s so good. Zooming out a little bit, because I think you have a really interesting perspective on asking, and I think you said last night my husband thinks I’m magic, and you’re like, I am, and actually, it’s because of X, so what’s the, why are you magic, Kel?
KEL 21:46
I think because I really try to lead from a place of wonderment and I just truly try to think what’s the best case scenario instead of the worst case scenario and because my mind does that, like my, I grew up in a way where I had to really take care of myself in a lot of ways. I was going back and forth between two houses, like eldest daughter syndrome, all of that stuff.
And so from, Oh, preach. Yeah. So from a very young age, I had to think a lot. I had to be like, Oh, are my stuffed animals going to be where I need them to be tonight? Will my brother’s stuffed animals be where he wants them tonight? Like we have to remember to put them in our bowling bags. So I think my mind is already conditioned to be three steps ahead.
And so I’m like, I’m always just trying to be like, instead of worst case scenario, how can I be three steps ahead for best case scenario? I’m just like, Trust that it’s going to work out and I really lead from a place that I would consider very front footed Of let me just ask for what I need.
Let me just assume this is gonna work out Let me give some context to everything that I’m asking for So I think it started as a survival mechanism and I’ve just found ways to make that really positive
RHEA 22:53
Can you share an example with me? You shared it last night, which I thought was really good, and I was like, break that down for us.
Okay.
KEL 22:58
Yeah over the summer so my husband and I bought a farmhouse fixer upper on a small island in Maine. We are major foodies. I was surprising him by taking him to this restaurant called Aragusta and It’s on Deer Isle and I noticed on the website that they had these beautiful greenhouses.
But when I tried to make a reservation in the greenhouse, it said, not for parties under four. So I went ahead and I sent an email and just said, Hey, it’s my husband’s birthday. I’m surprising him. We’d love to be, I’d love to have this greenhouse and crickets. Didn’t hear anything. And I was like, fine, we already had a reservation in the restaurant, in the dining room, no worries.
But the next, what I did the week of the actual reservation is I went ahead and I emailed back and I said, Hey, just following up with this request. And they said, you’re in luck. No one is using it. Amazing. So I think that worked out for four reasons. The first reason is that I was really clear about what I was asking for.
I was asking specifically, can we be in this greenhouse? That’s specifically what I wanted. I was like, we already have a reservation. Can we be in this greenhouse? Secondly I didn’t hear anything, so I circled back and then in the circle back is when it worked. Third I was really clear about the context of this is a surprise for my husband.
I know he’s a major foodie. He’s going to love being here. We’re living in Maine. He’s gonna love this. So I got them in on it and then fourth I just didn’t hold on too tightly to the outcome. I was like, let me just try I already made the reservation I did everything that was in my power and I did this extra thing.
And so when we showed up Everyone on the at the restaurant knew and they were all really excited about the surprise.
RHEA 24:35
Oh, that’s really sweet. Actually reminds me of my husband and I were buying our apartment in New York and I basically badgered the broker because she was on vacation and it was like hey Camille I just left six other voicemails just following up again and literally I think she sold it to me she’s like I can’t hear from you anymore you were a crazy person I was like polite persistence right but I think As women, I’m just going to make a blanket statement here, I think we’re so afraid to make the big ask because a lot of us are, I talked last night, askers versus guessers, askers are the people who are like, I’m just asking, guessers are the people who are only asking once they’re pretty sure the answer is yes.
So is there a way that we can orient to be, to train ourselves to be askers versus guessers? Because I think guessers, we tend to also. tend to play a little bit small because I’m like unless I’m sure you’re going to say yes, I’m not going to ask. Magical things happen when you ask for things that you think may be ridiculous.
KEL 25:34
I think it’s about getting even more impeccable with our words. Of just saying, okay, so as opposed to phishing, so for instance, you mentioned to me last night, Kel, I’d love to have you on my podcast, and then you were like, oh, I actually have my recording materials. Great. So this morning I could have reached out to you and just been like, Hey, good to see you last night.
If you do want to record today, here’s what I’m available. And instead I was like, in my mind, let me go from a place of, Hey Rhea, great to see you last night. I’d love to record with you today. Here’s when I’m available. So it’s about truly being like, as opposed to fishing and testing the waters to just being like, what if you just came out and said, Hey, I’m a fan of you for this reason, or I want to eat at your restaurant for this reason.
Is this possible? And really leading from a why first, of just not asking for someone, but giving them the context, I think is really important. And then being as specific as possible with what you’re asking for. Because I think we also get afraid of oh, is this person trying to take advantage of me if we’re asked?
Or what exactly are they asking for? And then things get lost in translation. So it really is about, here’s what I’m asking for and the context of why.
RHEA 26:37
So you’re saying I just got killed this morning. You totally did. It’s all good, I love it. But the funny thing is, I’m really glad you followed up because I had wanted to do this, but I was like, on a panel, I had a bunch of other things.
So the fact that you circled back, and you were like, Hey, this thing, and I was like, Yes! It made it an easy thing for me to say yes to because I was like, you told me the time, you told me that you really want to do this. Because the other thing is when you’re a guesser, you’re like, do you really want to, or do you really not want to?
And so the fact that you followed up, I was like, Oh, then clearly she wants to, otherwise she wouldn’t have followed up with me. Okay. I love that. I just got killed.
KEL 27:13
I like that. I like that you turned, just got killed into a verb. I love it.
RHEA 27:18
To be killed. Yes. Okay. Last question.
What’s the best. Best one of these phone calls you’ve ever done and actually what’s the worst just for funsies Okay, let’s do the worst first and then we’ll end in a good note.
KEL 27:29
Okay worst was okay I remember this so specifically this is maybe like almost 20 years like 15 20 years ago Rhea but I had a really good conversation with a doctor in pittsburgh and it seemed like he was gonna come on board and become a 500 patron at the theater where I was working and he was so lovely and he’s I just need to talk to my husband.
Call me tomorrow at this time. So I called him back and he didn’t pick up. And then I just decided to call him again at the end of the time I was calling just to see if he picked up and he picked up and he was like, why are you calling me again? He’s like, I’m a doctor. I had somebody. pass away today. And this is the last thing I need to hear right now.
And it was like a true 1 80 from the person I talked to the day before. And I understand now. And I have some more emotional maturity now and understand. Wow, that was really about his given circumstances and what he was going through. And I just happened to be the person, the messenger in that moment.
But that was really hard because we had been built such a great relationship the day before. And then that day he was so angry with me and I just and it was also the expectation. Sometimes people are angry when you make these calls and it’s like slides off your back. But it was just such a 1 80.
That was a really hard moment. One of my favorite calls was also when I was doing this myself and working at Manhattan Theater Club. And there’s this play called Rabbit Hole by David Lindsay Bear. Cynthia Nixon, Tyne Daly were starring in it and it was about grief. And so Cynthia Nixon had lost her four year old.
And then Tyne Daly had lost her adult son. They were mother daughter. And Tyne Daly had this scene when she was folding her grandson’s clothes, her deceased grandson’s clothes. And she was talking about grief and how it never, He really goes away. It just shifts. So I called a man whose a wife had recently passed and they had always gone to the theater together.
And this was the first show back and he had no idea what he was going to see. And at first I was like, exactly like you said, it was like, Oh no, this is terrible. But instead he said, Tyne Daly’s character expressed grief in a way that touched him. in a way that he hadn’t been able to articulate. So he stayed after the performance at the stage door to meet her and was like, I know she didn’t write it, but I just wanted to thank her because I felt so connected to what she was expressing as grief.
And it was just such a beautiful reminder. And so now I really encourage, the people that I, teach to fundraise to really when they can, when they have the emotional bandwidth to sit in that with the people that we’re calling because we might be encouraging them to reconnect with the world after a loss in a way that feels right to them.
RHEA 30:01
Okay, I lied. I have one last question here. So I find that when I train fundraisers, I, part of the training is I actually have to teach them how to listen because so often we’re listening just to respond or we’re listening with an agenda and I think particularly when you’re on a phone call, you have to actually listen and engage, which is hard too because if you’re feeling the pressure of I got to close this gift, like you’re, the chyron is going on in your head.
So how are you thinking about the art of listening and how do you. teach people how to listen in a world where everyone’s just screaming, but it feels like no one’s really listening.
KEL 30:39
Yeah. Part of the way I do that, Rhea, is I like to imagine, and it’s funny cause John Lep is here with his like Peanuts gallery.
Like Peanuts, like the cartoon with like his little booth. And so I like to imagine and train fundraisers, like they’re at a booth and they’ve got balloons above them. So they’re pulling down stuff. specific balloons, given what’s happening on the call. So that way it’s not just about running somebody through the paces.
So I train them to ask truly open, curious questions and listen to the answers. And given what the community member responds with, that’s which balloon to pull down. So it’s really about getting as specific as possible with the questions and making sure that the answers are part of what’s the next step.
Okay. of the phone call.
RHEA 31:26
I love that. Kel Haney. Once a director, always a director. I know. Because I’m listening to you, and you’re like directing scenes here. I love it. Where can folks find you? What’s the best place to connect?
KEL 31:36
Absolutely. LinkedIn is my business happy place. I love to connect with people there.
Absolutely find me on LinkedIn. Also, you can go to my website, kelhaney. com. Book a 30 minute exploratory call. We can talk about how I can potentially help you and your org connect with. Your mid level donors through five minute fundraising asks.
RHEA 31:55
Thanks, Kel. This has been so fun. And we’ll make sure that all of the info is in the show notes for folks.
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