In this episode, we are joined by Britt Savage, a diversity, equity, and inclusion consultant who shares insights on the report “Unlocking Social Progress by Addressing Structural Racism” by Bridgespan Group. We discuss the findings of the report, its implications, and how organizations can address structural racism to unlock social progress.
Key Takeaways:
-The report identifies how structural racism hinders social progress and the need to address it.-Structural racism operates within systems and institutions and can be invisible to those who are not directly impacted by it.-Organizations need to acknowledge their role in perpetuating structural racism and take steps to address it.-The report highlights specific actions organizations can take to address structural racism, including hiring practices, organizational culture, and community engagement.-Organizations need to commit to long-term, sustained efforts to address structural racism and create meaningful change.
“Unlocking Social Progress by Addressing Structural Racism” report: Unlocking Social Progress by Addressing Structural RacismBritt Savage’s LinkedIn page: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brittsavage/
“What if we really gave people the capital they needed?” – Britt Savage
Episode Transcript
RHEA WONG 00:05
Welcome to Nonprofit Lowdown! I’m your host, Rhea Wong. Hey, podcast listeners! Welcome to Nonprofit Lowdown! I’m your host, Rhea Wong. Today, I am speaking with Britt Savage who is a manager at Bridgespan and lead of racial equity in philanthropy initiatives. And today. we’re going to talk about addressing structural racism through philanthropy. Britt, welcome to the show.
BRITT SAVAGE 00:26
Thank you. I’m happy to be here today.
RHEA WONG 00:29
So Britt, before we jump into the details of this really interesting report that you did, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and how you started at Bridgespan, and how you became interested in racial equity and social justice?
BRITT SAVAGE 00:41
Yeah, of course! Again, my name is Britt Savage. And I was born and raised in Virginia by my mom, a white Midwestern lady, and my dad, a black man from Baltimore. And so growing up biracial, and with parents from very different backgrounds, very different families, race was a frequent and normal conversation in the house.
BRITT SAVAGE 01:04
My parents really taught me to question the different norms around me, the different power dynamics that were present in the world, and what it really looks like to value difference, I was lucky that they were very intentional about how they built up a community around us, and also just shared the history of my own family and really grounded us in that my paternal grandfather was involved in civil rights movements around education and desegregation.
BRITT SAVAGE 01:31
My dad is a nonprofit leader himself. So growing up, I watched his work and would go to events with him and things. And I think that really influenced my career path in very obvious ways. And a big part of watching my dad, growing up, in addition to being a real inspiration was watching the way that he had to constantly try to get buy-in from folks in power, and folks with money to see his vision come to life.
BRITT SAVAGE 02:00
And eventually, as an adult, finding my way to Bridgespan, where we’re working with nonprofit leaders, and working with philanthropists, I started really recognizing that there’s this responsibility I felt suddenly being in the decisions, being in the rooms where the behind-the-scenes conversations are happening, and really channeling that experience I had growing up and also recognizing the privilege I had in those spaces, as someone biracial, as someone white-passing, and so that’s a lot of the lens that I’ve taken to my work and why it’s led me not just to Bridgespan, but also this specific intersection of racial equity and philanthropy.
RHEA WONG 02:40
That’s so interesting. Thanks so much for sharing that. And I always loved your origin stories. There’s always a reason why you do the things that you do. So let’s talk about this report that you put up called “Unlocking Social Progress by Addressing Structural Racism.” We’re gonna delve deep into the details of this. But can you give us a general overview of the report and any surprises for you as you research this?
BRITT SAVAGE 03:08
Yeah! So by way of the background of how this piece came about, after 2020, and there were a lot of folks talking about the importance of funders getting more involved in addressing structural racism, we were hearing a lot of hesitations or questions from funders about what does that really mean? What does that really look like? I think oftentimes, to them, it sounds really ambiguous or really overwhelming of wow! But racism is such a big issue.
BRITT SAVAGE 03:38
Where do I get started? How can I make a difference? And so the inspiration for this piece was really, one helping to demystify what folks are trying to get funders to understand and to get the money off the sidelines, ultimately, and also just inspire more hope that change is really possible. In the sense that, oh, can you really ever resolve racist issues? It’s like, we want them to walk away. Yes, progress is possible, and you have a role to play.
BRITT SAVAGE 04:10
And so we collaborated with the Racial Equity Institute to really, I think cornerstone of the report is the Greensboro health disparities collaborative, which is an effort out of North Carolina working to address in this piece. We talked about their efforts specifically to address disparities in cancer treatment.
BRITT SAVAGE 04:30
And we use that example as well as some others really focused in the south to illuminate the different elements of the work of what it really looks like to achieve structural racism and in that effort has gone on for over 18 years and it still exists today. And so just really painting the picture of the story of that work, what that took, and trying to highlight some lessons for funders.
RHEA WONG 04:55
So what I really appreciated about the report was that it moves the conversation from the kind of individual interventions that one funder or one foundation might take and really tries to elevate it to a systems-level approach. Can you talk a little bit more about that?
BRITT SAVAGE 05:17
Yeah! Definitely, I think that it all starts with this radical clarity about the problem and about what the problem really is, right? I think, one really harmful narrative that is all too common in philanthropy is this idea that the problem is some sort of behavior change is needed on the part of the individual, or individuals just need help in these different ways, or there’s something wrong with them.
BRITT SAVAGE 05:47
And that often will lead you to a programmatic band-aid solution. And this is really about acknowledging that I mentioned Racial Equity Institute, and they use the groundwater metaphor. I’m not sure if you’re familiar, but it’s this idea that if you think about a lake and one fish is sick or dying, then you wonder what’s wrong with the fish. But if all the fish in the lake are dying, you wonder what’s wrong with the lake water.
BRITT SAVAGE 06:13
But if a bunch of lakes is all in one area, have all the fish have died, then you realize it’s in the groundwater. And that’s really what structural racism is. It’s infected every system in society. And so I think that like clarity around that really unlocks a whole different way of looking at the work. And if you just think about the magnitude, of the generations that this has been a problem, it becomes very clear that no one organization alone is going to resolve it. It really takes this ecosystem view. And it takes really encouraging collaboration instead of competition and understanding the different roles that folks can play.
RHEA WONG 06:54
So one of the things that struck me as I read the report, and it just seems like the obvious has not been necessarily a practice is engaging the people who benefit from the intervention in the solution and listening to communities of color. And it was just, huh! That seems very obvious to me. And yet, perhaps it’s not. Can you say a little bit more about that?
BRITT SAVAGE 07:18
Yeah! It’s funny to hear you say it’s obvious. And I completely agree. Whenever I talk about this piece and much of my work, I really hesitate to use the word findings. None of these insights are new. I’m certainly not the first one to say them. Bridgespan is not the first one to say them. Really, it’s just how you get the messages more normalized among the folks in power because anyone doing the work on the ground has known these things for decades and generations.
BRITT SAVAGE 07:46
But that aside, I think, to your point about the real importance of listening to communities of color, and those closest to the issues, I mean, it’s so obvious, right? Like the folks who are closest to the problem, who are living it day to day, they are positioned to identify the solutions that are needed. And it’s not just listening. I think a lot of times when folks say you need to get closer to the ground and listen to the folks who are closer to the issues. It can sound really superficial. And I think in the work that we did, it was really clear that it’s not only listening.
BRITT SAVAGE 08:34
It’s really valuing what they’re saying. It’s really valuing their expertise, and understanding that they aren’t saying these things. They aren’t organized, and they aren’t doing this work. in just inactivity, right? This is their life. This is organizing. It’s also not just this political exercise, right?
BRITT SAVAGE 08:51
I think that’s oftentimes what makes funders really nervous about getting closer to communities who are doing organizing and advocacy. It’s really about an act of survival. And so when you are in a deeper relationship with organizers, when you understand the stakes, when you understand what they’re saying, and really listen and act on what you’re hearing, I think that really just makes the work so much more effective.
RHEA WONG 09:22
So I have a spicy question here, which is George Floyd in the wake of decolonizing wealth, the trends of trust-based philanthropy, and funding black-led organizations, they think it all sounds really great. But what’s it actually going to take to make this change? Both actually happen and sustain over time because I also think what’s true is that philanthropy tends to be very predominantly white. And really the history of philanthropy in this country is rooted in structural racism and nobly so leash. So I’m just curious from your perspective, is it change real?
BRITT SAVAGE 09:56
Is the change from 2020 real?
RHEA WONG 09:58
Yeah, is it real and is it sustainable?
BRITT SAVAGE 10:01
It’s really a great question. And I think that the reality is philanthropy and all systems of power are really cyclical. There’s progress. And then there are reactions. And I think we’ve seen a backlash in a lot of ways in recent years. So it takes a steady fight over time in order for it to be sustained.
BRITT SAVAGE 10:24
I think the jury’s a little bit still out, and how many funders who did start leaning into the trust-based practices, how many are really keeping those over time as the pressure comes off, or as the context change, and because I know a lot of funders really do often default to their comfort zone. And so I think that if the work were done, then racism wouldn’t exist anymore. And that’s certainly not the case.
BRITT SAVAGE 10:52
And so I think, just continuing to keep steady progress. And there are funders who are doing that, who are staying committed, and it’s going to take the pressure staying on. I think that’s a lot of the story of the report we wrote that it’s great to work in partnership with institutions to really help them understand how they can be better and address racism entrenched within them. And that’s not going to sustain in the long term. You also need accountability from the community, from the folks working outside of those institutions to ensure that there is steady progress when the winds inevitably.
RHEA WONG 11:36
Let me ask this question. How important do you think it would be to see a representation of people of color at the highest levels of philanthropy? Because again, we can talk the talk, but when we look around the table, and when we look at the decision makers, I don’t know that we see sort of the representation and diversity that we would want to see. I’m so curious about your thoughts on that.
BRITT SAVAGE 12:01
Yeah, it is critically important. And I think I’m not sure I haven’t seen the latest numbers. But definitely, anecdotally, it feels like we’re making progress in that dimension. In a lot of racial equity organizations that I work with, and talk to, oftentimes, when they talk about funders, it’s a lot of program officers of color, who are doing whatever they need to do to make sure that the money is flowing to the organization’s doing the right work.
BRITT SAVAGE 12:33
And I think in conversations around diversity, I think that it’s important for folks to really internalize that it’s about, it really leads to a different outcome, not just because you have, okay, it’s nice to have a bunch of different faces around a table. But there are real assets that people bring when they are drawing on different value systems, different cultural upbringings, and different community experiences, and bringing that into the room and encouraged to do that. So I think it’s, yes, it’s critically important to have more diversity across all levels of philanthropic organizations. And for that, to be truly valued, to really pull out those assets, and recognize and be excited that the folks are bringing something different to the table.
RHEA WONG 13:29
So I’m just curious, it’s now 2023, three years after Black Lives, Matter. I wouldn’t even say the start at the moment. But I think a lot of the publicity that came after the George Floyd murder, have we seen any meaningful changes in the number of black-led organizations being funded?
BRITT SAVAGE 13:53
I believe the answer is yes. I don’t know the exact status off the top of my head. But yes, I think that there was a huge influx of capital, obviously, in 2020 and 2021. I guess there were a lot of commitments and 2020. And then some of those have started to be realized by thinking that one concern or not even one pitfall that I hope that plan B doesn’t fall into, is expecting that in one grant cycle of really capitalizing those organizations, it’s all of a sudden going to unlock all of the change that we’ve been waiting for.
BRITT SAVAGE 14:36
And my hope is that funders really understand that these problems that have been going on for centuries, and the under-capitalization that’s been going on for leaders of color are not going to be solved in a grant cycle. They’re not going to be solved in with one grant. They’re not gonna be solved in three years. They may not be solved even in one decade, and so staying the course.
RHEA WONG 15:02
What really strikes me as I’m reading this report is, it seems that it would take a great deal of humility for philanthropic leaders to take a step back and A: acknowledge that they don’t know everything. B: trust the folks on the ground doing the work and C: perhaps a willingness to themselves step back from their positions.
RHEA WONG 15:24
And that seems like a lot to ask. And I’m just wondering if there’s a question here, but are you optimistic that this will happen? Because the other thing is, and, again, people who enter philanthropy tend to stick around for a really long time. And I just don’t see it because it just feels like in order for cultural change to happen, there has to be a changing of the guards. And so yes, I’m curious, from your perspective, do you see this happening?
BRITT SAVAGE 15:54
Yeah, I think that picking up on your phrase of changing of the guards, I think, in family foundations, anecdotally, we’re seeing this a lot as, like younger generations are inheriting the money and have a different relationship with wealth, or maybe have been part of more of social justice conversations growing up. And so I think I’m optimistic there to your point about humility. It’s so true.
BRITT SAVAGE 16:20
That is not often something you hear in a sentence, oh, funders are so humble. And so I definitely hear the skepticism. And I think one reframe I might offer that seems to resonate with folks is, you really want to create a sense of belonging for even them in this movement to see themselves as part of it. And one thing that I love about the story of the Greensboro health disparities collaborative, is there is an organization made up of community members of folks in academia of medical providers, and they have this beautiful contract, like a values-based contract that they all sign as a group.
BRITT SAVAGE 17:10
And one of their norms is around really valuing what everyone brings to the table and the roles that they play. And so they are equal partners in the work, whether you are someone who is there because of your experience as a patient, or whether you’re there as a doctor. Those credentials or those titles leave them at the door. And I think there’s a similar mindset needed amongst funders of really asking themselves, what they bring to the table. And what they bring to the table most obviously, is capital, and money. And it doesn’t have to be expertise.
BRITT SAVAGE 17:45
I actually think a lot of folks may be relieved to know, or they may not admit it, but I think a lot of funders, like really do feel that pressure to have the answer and expertise. And this is an offer to set that down and recognize you can bring other things. And maybe it’s not just money. I think some folks may bring different social capital or other experiences, especially as hopefully philanthropy becomes more diverse. But so maybe that reframe is a little bit easier to imagine then, folks just showing up, maybe with all of the humility.
RHEA WONG 18:19
Yeah! It reminds me of one of the metaphors I love about a stone soup, which is we all have something to add to the soup. No one person is more important than the others, but we all have to collectively come together to make this soup happen. Okay, great! I’m a little bit more cynical, but I’d love to see that. But on that note, I’d be curious. Are there any examples that you would point to of philanthropy really pushing and making progress in this regard? You mentioned one group. And I’m curious, are there other examples that you have?
BRITT SAVAGE 18:50
Yeah! I think that one, we talked about more black-led organizations getting funding, I think there have also been a lot of funds that are coming up that are really grassroots-based. I think I’m really excited about the role that they can play because plenty of reasons I agree. I understand your cynicism, right? Like, are these institutions really going to even be able to learn how to operate differently? And I think there really is a role for a lot of these intermediary funds that are closer to the work who do have the relationships, who do have the values and are just set up differently to help with a lot of that and to really role model what it can look like as some of the bigger institutions learn their way into this.
BRITT SAVAGE 19:17
One that comes to mind is I know you’ve had on here before, like the Northstar fund, right? And I think that’s an example of the type of funds that I’m talking about. And another example we talked about in the piece is a funder in Georgia who’s a small family foundation called the Sapelo Foundation. And they do a lot of work to support power building and coming out in 2020, poured resources into four different play space networks and coalitions that were in different stages of development across Georgia. And it’s not a perfect example. But we really liked how they were respecting the organizing work that was already happening. And really taking that lens of how they could support strengthening in.
RHEA WONG 20:22
One example that comes to mind too. And we don’t necessarily have to talk about it if you don’t want to. But I find that Miss McKenzie Scott’s approach is interesting. And I hope it serves as an example to other wealthy individuals who are thinking about supporting organizations. But in particular, I appreciate the fact that she is not requiring a bunch of hoops to jump through that she’s not requiring onerous reporting, and that she’s making it general operating, unrestricted support and I’m curious do you think that there’s a world where we’ll see more of that kind of individual giving?
BRITT SAVAGE 21:03
I hope so. And I think that what is really exciting about that example is people can often feel like, it’s just really complicated that I just don’t know how do I find these organizations? What do I do in there? All of these. So yes, it creates all these hoops for nonprofits. And I think they’re creating a lot of hoops for themselves that they feel they have to jump through. And at the end of the day, I think it’s an interesting example to show if the goal is getting money out the door, you can actually just decide to get money out the door.
RHEA WONG 21:43
It’s interesting as you’re talking about this concept of trust-based philanthropy because I think it certainly speaks to the trust that philanthropy should have in nonprofit leaders. But I also, I’m just thinking out loud, I’ve never worked in a foundation. But it also seems to me that some of the due diligence, and perhaps the onerous due diligence that program officers find themselves doing is because of perhaps a lack of trust from a board perspective of, are you stewarding this money properly? So I’m curious, are you able to speak to the ways in which trust has to operate within an institution in order to get to this new world?
BRITT SAVAGE 22:24
Yeah! And I think that there is a role that boards definitely play. I’ve also participated in a cohort with justice funders, where it’s really a community of practice around the different folks in the philanthropic spaces. And I know a lot of those conversations were folks grappling with how to get their board to buy in with these more trust-based processes.
BRITT SAVAGE 22:54
And I think that there’s a lot of lessons that can be learned from groups that are doing work to address structural racism, actually. Oftentimes, when funders are trying to figure out how to operate in a better way. They look at their peers, and they look at each other. But even just taking some of the examples that we talked about in this building trust, it is so core to racial equity work and so core to community-driven work.
BRITT SAVAGE 23:25
And so there’s a lot that can be learned even just from looking at those efforts. At the end of the day, it all comes back to relationships and creating the space for that for it to not be transactional, to really understand who it is that you’re working with. So you can understand what you’re bringing to the soup, to go back to your metaphor, right? I know that sounds really fluffy, especially in the context of a very hierarchical institution and organization.
BRITT SAVAGE 23:51
But I think it does start there at least. And certainly, there are very tactical processes of what that can look like and trying to navigate. Okay, like what really does need board approval? And where are there loopholes? And we can get creative. A lot of this work is also just folks getting creative because building trust is a long-term game.
BRITT SAVAGE 24:08
And this work feels very urgent. And so it’s balancing and I think as a person of color, this is just true of experiencing the world of in any given moment choosing when am I going to navigate around the system and try to find a loophole so I can get the work done that I feel is important. And where do I take that longer-term work to change what I’m seeing here as the problem?
RHEA WONG 24:32
So if I’m listening to you, and I’m connected to a funder, a foundation or whatever, and he does feel like a very big, tall worker, right? How do I even get started, especially if I’m a smaller organization? I’m like Britt, that sounds great, but I’m not the Ford Foundation. I don’t have all these resources and staff members to drive us forward. How do I begin?
BRITT SAVAGE 24:57
As a funder?
RHEA WONG 24:59
Yeah, as a founder.
BRITT SAVAGE 25:00
We hear this sentiment a lot. This is the conversation I’ve had and the maybe flippant answers, just start anywhere. Just start. I don’t know. Just do literally anything. But that’s not helpful. So to get more concrete. I think there are three main areas where we really encourage funders to look at their practices and their organization. On the internal side, there’s their own talent and culture.
BRITT SAVAGE 25:26
So looking at their recruiting, looking at their training, and looking at talent development processes how are you deciding who gets promoted? How are you building the future leadership of the organization? Are you doing that in an equitable way? And then no more in the work itself, there are the sourcing and diligence processes, are you disaggregating data? Do you even know to who you’re giving money? Are you looking at your diligence processes and criteria and trying to find where the bias lies? And in your own strategy, are you setting clear goals?
BRITT SAVAGE 25:59
Are you naming the role that race plays in the issues that you care about? Are you identifying specific populations that are most impacted? And so I just listed a lot of things. And I think that we often see folks start in one of three places, and hire. So really getting people who are more diverse and really are more fluent in equity. And I feel the need for the caveat of please don’t just hire people of color and expect them to solve all your racist problems as an organization. That is definitely not the advice.
RHEA WONG 26:34
Thank you for flagging that because we’ve seen that happen a lot to tokenism, and, oh, well just make the people of color do all the equity, DEI stuff, and we’ll be fine. We’ll check that box.
BRITT SAVAGE 26:45
No! So that is not where to start. So I really think where I’ve seen it work really well is in the disaggregating data, so you understand even your own starting point, and the setting clear goals, because that can be helpful to unlock a number of natural next steps. And that doesn’t require a lot of staff. It’s not a ton of extra work if you’re even just a nimble organization.
RHEA WONG 27:10
Let me ask you this because the folks listening to Nonprofit Lowdown are often on the nonprofit side, not necessarily on the philanthropic side. What can nonprofit leaders do to push an agenda? Push that agenda, or at least bring this up to the surface with their funders.
BRITT SAVAGE 27:31
Yeah! It’s a great question. And a lot of my work is also with nonprofits as well. And I think that the preface of any advice to nonprofit leaders with the onus should not be on you to behave differently. The onus is on philanthropy. Nonprofit leaders don’t need to now start saying, okay, I’m going to do steps one through five to solve racism and philanthropy. Philanthropists need to sort this out and figure it out, get themselves together.
BRITT SAVAGE 28:07
That said, in the relationships that folks have, one goes back to what we were talking about the different roles that folks can play. And I think being clear on what role do you want your funders to play, I think a lot of leaders that I talked to, they’re like, I don’t want to add to my list of things. It’s changing the hearts and minds of my funders, I would like them to provide the money and not get out of the way, but get out of the way.
BRITT SAVAGE 28:32
And I think that’s a perfectly reasonable path to take. And so you don’t necessarily have to feel like you have to be the one to bring along your funder. That said, I also talked to plenty of leaders who do want to do that. And I think it starts with really knowing what you value as a person and as an organization and being really unapologetic about that. And explaining this is why this is important for the work. And it’s not this moral imperative. It’s a strategic imperative. And let me tell you why, and not shying away from that conversation.
RHEA WONG 29:07
Yeah, and I just want to underscore here too, that I think the funders who truly are partners in the work will be open to the conversation, and they’re probably the ones most likely to actually engage in this anyway, as opposed to funders that are much more kissed the ring, as it were. So Britt, as we’re wrapping up, any last thoughts or advice for folks in the field who are really wrestling with stepping into this new world of addressing structural racism? And also, we’re not there yet, right? We still have an entrenched culture. Any thoughts, advice, or encouragement for folks?
BRITT SAVAGE 29:45
Well, I think that it is what I’ll offer to folks who are either leaders doing the work trying to address the racism that they see in their own communities and to the funders who are learning about this is to really start asking, like, the anchor on the what if. What if we do resolve this? And I think in philanthropic spaces, especially folks are asking the wrong way, what if they’re like? What if it fails?
BRITT SAVAGE 30:22
What if it doesn’t go well? What if people get mad at me? And I think asking what if we really resolved the structural racism? What would this world look like? What if we really gave folks the capital and resources that they need? What if we didn’t? I think that the conversations about risks are defined in the wrong way. The risk is that folks aren’t given the capital they need to really get the change.
BRITT SAVAGE 30:44
The risk is that we keep operating in a world that’s the way it is right now. And it’s just the status quo. And to go back to, one of the main reasons why we wanted to write this report was to inspire hope that change is possible. And I will say that organization, we talked about, closed the disparities in cancer treatment. They did it. And I know it’s just one example in a hospital in one place, but those are lives that are saved, and I know it’s hard, but it is possible. And so I really hope that folks can feel that even amongst all of the challenges.
RHEA WONG 31:30
I am so glad I asked that question. That’s a beautiful answer. So, Britt, I will make sure to put your information in the show notes if folks want to get in touch via LinkedIn and I will make sure to link to your really excellent report. Thanks so much for being here.
BRITT SAVAGE 31:43
Thank you so much for having me.
RHEA WONG 31:46
And until next time. Take care, everyone.
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